What am I looking at here?...

[thermaler]

I'm wondering--assuming it is copper fouling--what causes this in the first place? Is the bullet failing to stabilize in the barrel--twist/weight/velocity not right etc. ? Just want to learn--thanx.

[fgw_in_fla]

On a side note -

When I got his barrel it was clean. I gave it "the treatment" with Hoppes. A generous swabbing, let it sit for 30 minutes, 3 to 4 clean patches & the inside shined. I could look up at the florescent light thru the barrel & it shined from end to end.
A few range sessions & I was quite pleased with its performance. I put up pics of some of the targets. It was a real shooter.
2 weeks ago this hazy stuff appeared. I see it's gotten worse since last week. I shot 16 rounds of 120 Noslers on an OCW. No way I was going to tell where the accuracy node was. All 5 - 3 shot groups looked like my grandson practicing with his eyes closed. All 5 - 3 shot groups looked like the scatter node.

Sunday evening - Barrel cleaning time. I'm seeing the white haze has doubled since the previous week.

I have no idea what it is. I keep getting the feeling it's heat related. Don't know why. Just a feeling. When shooting, 3 to 4 shots then cool down. This is typical on how it was used.

Frank in Fla

[Blue Avenger]

On a side note -


I have no idea what it is. I keep getting the feeling it's heat related.

Frank in Fla

LOL Don't stroke it so fast!

[fgw_in_fla]

That's why I like this site so much...

The tech advice & info PLUS the comedy. Where else can you get all that for 12 bucks a year?

Which compells me to ask...

Is that an experience related suggestion or speculation based advice?

[82boy]

I am with you this is not copper. Copper is the easiest thing to remove from a bore, all is needed is something with ammonium. I have seen many shooters use store bought Ammonium right out the bottle, and remove copper just as good as sweets or montana extreme. I have seen withish marks like this before, it is a reaction between the bluing, and the bore solvent. I bet that it will go away if you wipe the bore out with accetone. It takes a lot more heat than what is generated by 10 shots to cause any slight problem. It is typical than my guns will get get 10 Plus shots withen a 2 to 4 minute period, and it has never once affected them. If you thing that your other guns are not collecting carbon, you might want to think again. Carbon affects some calibers more than others. Just scrub it out with JB and shoot it.

[fgw_in_fla]

Tried the acetone on a small brass wire brush. Didn't even phase it. And I have no doubt that carbon and / or copper will build up inside a barrel. I always go thru a lengthy cleaning routine at the end of each range session. I'm sure there's carbon in the throat area, probably a little fire cracking & who knows what else.

This seems to be none of the aforementioned. Brushes & chemicals I have on hand have no impact on it. The inside of that barrel was traumatized with a brush earlier today & it made no difference at all, even scrubbed with Sweets & Hoppes.
Nutthin'.....

I give up.

I'm going to shoot it once more. If it gets worse & more of that whitish hazy stuff appears, I'll be doing an early barrel change out. So far the trend has been the haziness has increased with each range session, over the past 2 weeks.
Thanks for the input gents.... I'm off to the 'ol salt mine.

Frank in FLa

[Speedrat1]

Frank,

I looked but couldn't find it but I remember another situation just like this posted I think on one of the other forums I hang out on. The poster in that case was using Sweets to clean the copper and then following right up with Hoppes. The consensus or final thoughts in that one was the two cleaners were reacting to each other and causing the build up. "As best" as my old memory can tell I believe the poster was going to try light lapping of the bore to remove the deposits. I can't say I personally know the chemistry involved but I should imagine it might be possible and at that a light lapping will not hurt a factory barrel. My own take is as the deposit is white, other than aluminum I can only think it must be a salt or the like. The heat of shooting may well be involved but only on how it's affecting the cleaner residue(s) left in the bore. Any heating I personally have every seen would be more carbon to blue.

Ron

[fgw_in_fla]

Thaks Ron...

So far that's the most logical answer I've heard. I don't understand why it wouldn't haze up in the other 5 rifles and only this one but, maybe, just maybe there's something different about it.

I 'spose I'll try a little polishing compound & see if it has any impact on it. Last, but certainly not least, I'm going to play a little "Musical Barrels". I need to do a little swapping & I strongly suspect the 7mm-08 will be going idle for a while. New toys are always fun toys.

Thanks.
Frank in Fla

[stomp442]

Worse comes to worse you could always try the David tubb fire lapping system and see if that will clean it up.

[fla9-40]

OK Frank, I have decided to help you out here. Take the barrel off, pack it up and ship it to me (on your dime) and I will dispose of it properly for you!! ;)
Hey... what are fellow Floridians good for!!?? :thumb:

[Gmac5]

Frank i had a similar deposit , near muzzle and found out it was one of the ingredients in the lot of military powder I was using , aluminum . Its used to prevent rust in tropical climates , so i was told . It deposits near the muzzle , because thats where it falls outa gas and start to solidify , nothing to do with velocity , but the cooling of gases further from explosion , chamber . Anyway thats what i remember and was told . Presision shooters benchrest book has somethings on cleaning , its good reading. J B cleaned it .
Gary

[fgw_in_fla]

I can't recall EVER having so many friends & people wanting to help me out....

As of this writting, the rifle in question is on the bench, in pieces & about to get rebarreled to a new & improved .243. I just got my new .223 WSSM barrel & I'm playing "barrel, barrel - WHo gets a new barrel"...

I have one action & bolt that operates like silk with farm fresh butter on it & I have another action that operates as smooth as russian burlap. I'm trying to come up with the right combinations of action, bolt, barrel based on accuracy & what the rifle is designated for (target, hunting, war time activity...)
SO...
There is always that possibility that you may come home one afternoon & trip over it on the way in.

Gotta go back to work. I hate it when my rifles are in pieces all over the shop.
Frank in Fla

[Gmac5]

Frank, im in west palm 1/2 mile from turnpike , with borescopes , lathes , milling and over1k rifles , just in case you want me to scope it for ya. Oh ya i dont charge.
Gary

[thermaler]

Frank, im in west palm 1/2 mile from turnpike , with borescopes , lathes , milling and over1k rifles , just in case you want me to scope it for ya. Oh ya i dont charge.
Gary

Good Karma to both of you--I rarely see such graciousness on other firearms forums. : )

[fgw_in_fla]

Gary - You're a gentleman of the rarest kind. It looks like we'll have to make an arrangement to get together in the near future. Reserve some range time & lets get together some weekend.

I appreciate your most generous offer so much, I might just name a kid after you. Or maybe one of my cats... i don't know.

I would like to get together and perhaps have a look see down a few of my barrels to see how badly they may be traumatized.

Time for some coffee & watch Gov. Romney mop the stage with Obunghole.... Again.

Later, y'all
Frank in Fla

[drybean]

thanks,Frank you always have me laughing (Obunghole)
could not agree more

drybean

[fgw_in_fla]

Hey Bean..

Try to tell me that name doesn't fit.

Just try...

[fgw_in_fla]

Well folks, don't worry about the "Great WHite Haze Issue"...

I took the barrel off & I think I'll play around with it when I have a chance. The replacement barrel is a SS fluted .243 fat barrel. It kinda gets me a little PO'ed because I barely got to fine tune the loads I had. The 7-08 was by far one of the easiest I've ever loaded for.
Accuracy loads showed up on the first go around & it seemed to do very well with 120gr thru 150gr bullets.

I 'spose I'll keep an eyeball open for another barrel. After all, I have to do something with this new die set & all this brass. The bullets may get used for a 7mm Rem Mag I'm considering. I need to enlargen my cajones first...

Thanks for everyone's input on this.

Frank in Fla

[thermaler]

I was a little curious about you firing it a few more times--I was going to suggest that you try a quality factory load to see if the same blemishes are happening, in which case something may be wrong with the barrel/rifle. If not, I would suspect something in your home-brew.

[bobc]

I'm haveing the same issue with my 223axis, I've been using win and AE 55grfmj overrun stuff and am kind of wondering if it would have the aluminum additive mentioned above?