The foreign material that is found under the barrel nut and in action/barrel threads

[thomae]

There have been several threads where people have speculated what the "schmutz" is that seems to be found in the small space between the front of the barrel nut and the barrel, as well as in the threads of the barrel and action. This stuff is credited with making the barrels harder to remove than they might have been otherwise.

Some posters have been of the opinion that this schmutz is residue from bead blasting because Savage rifles are finished after they are assembled.

The countervailing point of view is that this is a buildup of bluing salts within the threads because the bluing solution is not adequately rinsed out of the assembled threads when the process is completed.

I recently saw some of this schmutz between the barrel of my relatively new, never disassembled, Model 10 and the inside of the barrel nut. I managed to pick out one piece with a fine needle and look at it under a loupe. It looked like a round shiny metal ball.

Today I disassembled an Axis barrel/receiver that had the same schmutz in it (visible from the outside before disassembly). The stuff looked like teeny tiny round shiny balls of differing diameters.

There was (figuratively) tons of this stuff in the receiver and barrel threads.

Then I had a brilliant (if I say so myself) idea. I took the receiver with the schmutz in it over to my kids' computer that has a computerized microscope on it and took the following pictures.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3vqvpbkeH-M/UHbmwgNd8RI/AAAAAAAABOY/th1O66ZPkN8/s640/Axis%2520action%2520threads%25201.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lpqh9zzs7zw/UHbmwgY2LEI/AAAAAAAABOU/u0zRw8bYN6Q/s640/Axis%2520action%2520threads%25202.jpg


I'll let each reader decide what you think the schmutz really is. It certainly doesn't look like corrosion to me.
(note: The red you see in the photo is from the red duct tape that I used to line my action wrench.)

If not helpful, I hope this is at least interesting.
Although I posted it in this section it appears to apply to all current Savage rifles with barrel nuts.

[rjtfroggy]

Thomae I've said it before and I will say it again " You have way too much time on your hands".

[JWK1]

Actually, I found this out by calling Savage a couple of weeks ago after I had bought my Stevens 308. I had ordered it from my local gun shop and when it came in, I was furious to find the crappy, and what I perceived to be coating, on the metal. The Savage site specifically describes the Stevens rifles has having a "satin blue" metal. The woman on the phone assured me that it is not a coating, that she PROMISED me was real bluing and the finish was matt and was on all their chrome moly rifles since about June or July. She went on to tell me I could even see the tiny metal balls in the cracks of the barrel nut where the barrel and action meet. Sure enough, I took my 10x loupe and saw quite clearly what your photo also shows.

So there is no mystery and Savage admits it. The only thing I'm wondering is the best way to get these things out of there before I take my barrel off, or worse yet, if you CAN get those little bead blast things out of there.

[BillPa]

Two thoughts come to mind.

First and foremost Savage Arms never condoned or suggested we rip their rifles apart. Its kinda like complaining about the gorilla who tightens the barrel nuts. The solution? Don't remove the barrel nuts! :biggrin-new:

Second, before installing a barrel I clean the barrel and action threads with a wire brush and solvent. Its SOP. I'm not concerned what or if they put something in there. If it was there before, trust me, it ain't gonna be there when I'm done!

Bill

[thomae]

Thomae I've said it before and I will say it again " You have way too much time on your hands".
It took me all of 5 minutes to take and post the photos.

[thomae]

The only thing I'm wondering is the best way to get these things out of there before I take my barrel off, or worse yet, if you CAN get those little bead blast things out of there.

1. I got rid of them after I had the barrel apart. They make it more difficult to take the barrel nut off the barrel, I had to use the barrel vise and barrel nut wrench, but after cleaning the threads on both pieces, it all screwed together easily by hand with no tools. I don't think there is any way I would be able to get rid of them other than dissassembly.

2. On my 10 FCM, I use open sights, so I am loath to take off the barrel as I fear it would not be indexed exactly correctly for the sights. I think I may take just a touch of silicone caulk and put it on the front of the barrel nut to seal that opening between the nut and barrel. I don't want any moisture in there causing the steel balls to rust.

3. My post was not meant to complain (my motto is "no whining"), but simply to inform.

4. I cleaned everything using hot water and Dawn detergent (and the tip of my little Swiss Army Knife for a few extremely stubborn balls), the hot metal made the water evaporate very quickly, but I followed with a liberal coating of WD 40 to displace any water left over, followed by a thorough cleaning with automotive brake cleaner to get the WD 40 off. Then a light coating of Kroil before reassembly. Probably overkill, I'll admit, but it didn't take very long.

[jonbearman]

I use grease on the threads and nut. I have never had one come loose or rust or accumulate stuff under the nut.As far as I am concerned ,that is butchery to bead blast after assy.If it had a shoulder like a remmy then maybe it works.But I have seen many other brands with bluing salts bleeding from every nook and cranny.But I have never seen blasting media in the threads before.

[fgw_in_fla]

I had exactly the same headache with the matte black brand new .308 Edge I bought 2 weeks ago. I got it home & pulled the barrel to make it a 7mm-08 & went thru heck getting it apart.
All kinds of little tiny steel balls in the threads of the barrel & action.

A wire wheel on the drill made short work of the barrel threads. Getting them out of the barrel nut threads & action was a whole 'nother story.
2 hours later & it was still a pain to thread up. Some of them got squashed in the threads & weren't leaving without a fight.
It took the rest of the afternoon to pick them out with a "dental pick" type instument. I finally got it cleaned & continued my project.
Whatta pain that was.
Frank in Fla

[tomme boy]

That is the shot that is used to take off the scale after a heat treatment. The one we used to have to maintain an rebuild was named a wheelabrader. It would spray steel shot at very high speed while the parts are tumbling.

[243LPR]

Always wondered how to spell "schmutz",now I know. People outside of Pa probably never heard that before :)

[Blue Avenger]

only on TV ya know ;)

[BillPa]

Always wondered how to spell "schmutz",now I know. People outside of Pa probably never heard that before :)

People outside Pa never heard of a lot of things we say here! They look at us all "Fershimeled" when we talk! :p

[fgw_in_fla]

Here in the south it's called "spooge". Southern dialect makes it too difficult to say "schmutz", especially with regional spellings like "schmootz", etc.

[Blue Avenger]

Stuff!

[243LPR]

It's a Pa Dutch thing.

[thomae]

Here in the south it's called "spooge". Southern dialect makes it too difficult to say "schmutz", especially with regional spellings like "schmootz", etc.
I used to live below the Mason-Dixon line also. I would suggest that, at least the way I understand it, "spooge" is simply the same as liquid (and more than likely, slimy) schmutz.