Savage carbine 10 MOA help!

[kevinsherwin]

Hey guys can you tell me what is the right moa rail for my carbine percision 10 if I wanna shoot out to 1000 yds?
Thanks
Kevin
Seattle WA

[M.O.A.]

That depends on your scope if you have the right scope you don't need the moa rail. as it depends on what round your shooting.

But the 20moa rail is what you want to hear.

[geargrinder]

That depends on your scope if you have the right scope you don't need the moa rail. as it depends on what round your shooting.

But the 20moa rail is what you want to hear.

+1

My Nightforce can get there without a rail. But, my Bushnell Elite needs some help.

[Texas Solo]

It depends on how much bullet drop you have and how much scope adjustment you have. Some scopes have 90 MOA of adjustment (45up & 45 down).
If your dropping 50" at 1000, that's only 5 MOA. I would think that most all scopes have that amount of adjustment.

[kevinsherwin]

OK thanks everyone for yout time and answers. I shouldve added more detail to the original post. The round I will be shooting is the Federal Sierra Match 168gr HPBT. My scope is a Millett 4-16X56 mil dot 30mm I would like to get out as far as possible maybe 1000 yds if i practice alot. Ive done some research and it looks like alot of guys are using a 20 moa rail to help them get out that far. Also if 20moa is the right rail can you point me in the right direction of where to buy one thanks again
Kevin

[Westcliffe01]

Hornady 168gr match drops 36 minutes at 1000 yards (and that is probably out a longer barrel than your carbine). So a 20 minute rail would mean that you would be sighted in about -20 minutes and would only have to dial up to about +16-20 to get all the way out to 1000 yards.

[darkker]

Hornady 168gr match drops 36 minutes at 1000 yards (and that is probably out a longer barrel than your carbine). So a 20 minute rail would mean that you would be sighted in about -20 minutes and would only have to dial up to about +16-20 to get all the way out to 1000 yards.

Yeah, as you already pointed out, What is the starting Velocity? THAT, and the specific air is what dictates drop.
According to Horn-head, 168gr HPBT match ammo WITH a 2700fps starting vel. With some REASONABLE atmosphere for where he is shooting:
1000 elevation 60deg 40% RH That ammo spec actually has: 38.1 minutes drop.

A Leupy VX-II 6-18 has 72 min adjustment, or 36 each way. My scope(that lupey) had to be adjusted down for zero, so I end-up with 39 min usable adjustment.

It just all depends. Start off doing what you propose: PRACTICE!!! IF you find you need the base, THEN buy it.

[helotaxi]

The round I will be shooting is the Federal Sierra Match 168gr HPBT. My scope is a Millett 4-16X56 mil dot 30mm I would like to get out as far as possible maybe 1000 yds if i practice alot.The highlighted part is going to be you limiting factor. The 168gn Matchking used in that ammo has a known problem with transonic stability. It will shoot great out to about 700yds. By 800 it has left the reservation. The Sierra is the only bullet that has that problem that dramatically and only in that bullet weight. If you move over to a Hornady 168 Amax or BTHP or any of the Nosler or Berger bullets or to a different weight of Sierra bullet the effects of the transonic transition becomes much less pronounced. The 168 SMK is a great bullet 600yds and in. It's only at real long range that it has issues.


Ive done some research and it looks like alot of guys are using a 20 moa rail to help them get out that far. Also if 20moa is the right rail can you point me in the right direction of where to buy one thanks again
KevinI've got several EGW 20 MOA bases on my long range rifles and one Weaver 20 MOA base. I actually like the Weaver base better and had I found it first I wouldn't have the EGWs. The only real difference is the Weaver has a recoil lug that locks into the action port and takes the recoil load off the base mounting screws. SWFA, Midway, Optics Planet and others all carry both the EGW and Weaver base.

[Blue Avenger]

Are you going to use the rifle at 100 yards anymore? Add to much and you may not get back down there.

[stangfish]

Are you going to use the rifle at 100 yards anymore? Add to much and you may not get back down there.

Some Bushnells have very little adjustment...even their Tactical models in the extinct 4200 line.

If you get a 20 it only takes 20 down to get you back on at 100. From there shooting a 308 with a 155 at see level start at +14 for 600 and +34 for 1000. With a 2750 velocity that should put you on paper.

Depending on the concentricity of the bore to the outside diameter of the action, the alignment of the mounting holes in the action, the quality of your original base and rings the above statements should be relatively close.

Weaver and EGW are two economical brands that make 20moa rails. Not the choice of guys with big money...but your scope tells me we are not talking big money.


Here is a table i just looked up to give you an idea on how much a bullet may drop out to 500. http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2012CatalogCenterSpread.pdf

Learn about your bullets BC, MV ETC... and then use an online balistic calculator to further better your estimate of bullet drop for your particular rifle in your caliber. This one will get you started. There are dozens online. http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

[helotaxi]

Yes, you can buy a more expensive base than the EGW or Weaver. If someone can show me a real difference in what I would get by spending 4x or more money I might consider one of the expensive rails worth it. Likewise the silly expensive rings. I have a set of Seekins high dollar rings only because they came as part of a package deal on a scope that was too good to pass up and were actually cheaper than "free". I'm using them, but I wouldn't buy a set on their own unless they were very heavily discounted and worked out to be the same price or cheaper than the rings that I typically use. The Burris XTR rings work just fine. I prefer the EGW Practical rings for their simplicity and lack of bulk or snags.

[stangfish]

That was my point. To often people place minimum requirements to high for the average joe. Since he didn't have a nightforce or USO I assummed the weaver would be fine.

[Handloader]

A side benifit of the 20 MOA base is that it allows the scope "crosshairs" to be closer to the optical center of the scope at longer distance. This allows for a more crisp image at the longer ranges. On faster/flatter bullets, I have had EGW make custom 10MOA bases, so I could still zero at 100 yards without running out of adjustment (a Nikon Monarch mildot scope with a lowsey 40 MOA of total adjustment). I run a 20 MOA base on a Remington 700 with a US Optics scope in 308. The 20 inch barrel will reach out to 1000 just fine with Lapua 155g launched at 2925fps.

The point of this comment is.....If you have 100 MOA of adjustment in your scope (50up and 50 down), you put on a 20MOA base and zero at hundered yards you will have roughly 90MOA in the "up." Dial in your drop at 1000 (36MOA per your post), and your now left with 54MOA of "up" left in your scope. Your "crosshairs" are only 4 MOA from optical center of the scope were the resolution is optimal.

Just my two cents.......

[helotaxi]

That was my point. To often people place minimum requirements to high for the average joe. Since he didn't have a nightforce or USO I assummed the weaver would be fine.

My point is that even if he DID have a Nightforce or USO, the Weaver would be fine.

[earl39]

If your dropping 50" at 1000, that's only 5 MOA.

Texas please enlighten us on what other than a cruise missile only has 5 moa of drop from 100 to 1000 yards.

Kevin when you are shooting at long range you really want to stay as close as you can to the middle of the adjustment range of your scope so you have all of the avaliable windage to use if you need it. If your scope is fairly centered at 100 yards with a 0 moa base then the 20 moa base will keep you close to the center of adjustment range at 1000 yards and depending upon your scope will still allow you to get a 100 yard zero. The 168 matchking was built for 300 meter competition and some ranges will not allow it to be shot at 1000 yard matches due to the above stated lac of stability issue. You should look at the 155 or the 175 and heavier bullets. Even at a modest 2700fps the Lapua 155gr Scenar HPBT will still be super at 1000 yards as will the 175gr HPBT MatchKing launched at the same 2700fps.

[Texas Solo]

Texas please enlighten us on what other than a cruise missile only has 5 moa of drop from 100 to 1000 yards.


What, you guys don't shoot the big guns? Actually, I had just been doing some load calculations for a 500yd. match. At 500yds, I drop 52", which equals 10MOA.
Got confused between the OP's 1000yd question and my 500 yd calculating. My bad.

[Panozguy]

Yes, you can buy a more expensive base than the EGW or Weaver. If someone can show me a real difference in what I would get by spending 4x or more money I might consider one of the expensive rails worth it. Likewise the silly expensive rings. I have a set of Seekins high dollar rings only because they came as part of a package deal on a scope that was too good to pass up and were actually cheaper than "free". I'm using them, but I wouldn't buy a set on their own unless they were very heavily discounted and worked out to be the same price or cheaper than the rings that I typically use. The Burris XTR rings work just fine. I prefer the EGW Practical rings for their simplicity and lack of bulk or snags.

+1

I use the 0 degree EGW on my 12 LRP, but I also use a Sightron SIII with 100 MOA of adjustability...XTR rings are rock solid. 700 yard 4 shot group from yesterday - that's a spray paint can lid target. .25 - .3 MOA from a bone stock rifle - amazing.


http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj592/panozguy/IMG-20121007-00133.jpg

[memilanuk]

While I know short(er) barrels are the current 'thing' in the tacticool circles... I personally think that if you want to have any reasonable degree of success shooting out to 1k, you might want to either pick a different gun, and/or a different load. A .308 Win with a 20" barrel is kind of ham-strung from the get-go in that kind of race, Sierra 168 MKs are somewhat questionable performers at that distance (some people seem manage okay, more do not), and then mass-produced factory ammo (even Federal Gold Medal Match) on top of that...

That bullet going at approx. 2650 fps, assuming standard atmo conditions (59F 29.92" Hg, 0% RH, 0' ASL), is going to need more like 43-44 moa of up to get to 1k. And that velocity might be a touch on the optimistic side - I have a 10PC myself, and while I don't have any chrono data handy for FGMM w/ S168MK, I recently clocked some Federal Premium w/ S165GK @ 2615fps. Plug those numbers into JBM Ballistic calculator, and you'll notice that it goes subsonic just past 900 yds. In theory, with the right combination of atmo conditions (high temperatures, very high altitude, etc.) you can just squeak by to 1k... but I wouldn't recommend it.

Either learn to reload, or get some of the semi-custom ammo from one of several vendors out there - Applied Ballistics, McCourt, Corbon, Southwest, etc. They all offer ammunition that is arguably better than factory Federal, with more suitable bullets, and I think at the *worst* is about the same price as FGMM - several are actually less expensive.

[Nandy]

+1

I use the 0 degree EGW on my 12 LRP, but I also use a Sightron SIII with 100 MOA of adjustability...XTR rings are rock solid. 700 yard 4 shot group from yesterday - that's a spray paint can lid target. .25 - .3 MOA from a bone stock rifle - amazing.


http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj592/panozguy/IMG-20121007-00133.jpg

whats your scope specs?
Thanks!

[Panozguy]

whats your scope specs?
Thanks!

Sightron SIII 6-24x50, Burris XTR rings. This rifle is amazing. I haven't even bedded it yet or done anything other than adjusting the trigger up to 1 lb.