Floating the rear tine

[durango]

I have always floated the rear tine on my Savages without question. Now the questions--WHY??? What are the dynamics behind this operation? What happens if you don't?

I'm not arguing the validity of the theory, I just can't figure out the need for it. Can someone explain it to me?

Thanks, Steve

[M.O.A.]

I think it tang and I think it has to do with the vibrations of the gun??? Or flexing the action or both???

[thomae]

flexing the actionIf not floated, it puts pressure on the rear of the action/receiver when the action screws are tightened.

[82boy]

It makes no diference, it just an old wive tale that someone started years ago. I have done it both ways and could not find a diference. It is basicly you can get away by floating it, where other guns you cant.

[Opus Dei]

It makes no diference, it just an old wive tale that someone started years ago. I have done it both ways and could not find a diference. It is basicly you can get away by floating it, where other guns you cant.I agree-I never did it because not only is a miniscule amount (if any) of warp, but the fact I couldn't discern any measureable deviation with my low-tech methods. It's about like the idea of book-matched AR receivers; all the accuracy is within the upper and the shooter. IDK what the lower contributes quantifiably to accuracy unless it's hideously OOS and binding the upper.

[Opus Dei]

If not floated, it puts pressure on the rear of the action/receiver when the action screws are tightened.Unless measured, doesn't that presume the tang is always warped downwards? Or that the problem is not a warped tang but an insufficiently-inletted stock (OK, with the latter, the corrective measure essentially does the same thing-it's just that the presumption is the tang is warped)?

[thomae]

Unless measured, doesn't that presume the tang is always warped downwards? Or that the problem is not a warped tang but an insufficiently-inletted stock (OK, with the latter, the corrective measure essentially does the same thing-it's just that the presumption is the tang is warped)?Opus Dei: My statement had no presumption or inference that the tang is always or sometimes warped downwards, just as a non-free-floated barrel does not necessarily suggest that the barrel is warped. Perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying.
- I admit that I have never measured the amount of pressure or flex on an unfloated tang.
- I believe that floating the tang, since unlike some rifles, there is no action screw there, is simply a part of stresslessly bedding the action.
- Does floating or not floating the tang affect accuracy? Some say yes. I will not argue with them. Some say no. I will not argue with them. I have never done (or seen) any true scientific testing to see which camp is correct.

- Like many things we in the shooting sports world do, if it makes you feel good about your rifle, it is often worth doing for the psychological effect is has, even if it has no discernible or measurable effect.

I am not arguing one way or the other, simply amplifying my earlier post.

[earl39]

Well let's just put it simply if we can. A floated tang will not stress the action and an improperly bedded tang will. It is much easier to float it than to properly bed it. Ok i know someone is going to say i can bed it with no stress but i am talking about the average person doing the bedding job. In the end you do what ever trips your trigger and gives you the best end results.

[Opus Dei]

Opus Dei: My statement had no presumption or inference that the tang is always or sometimes warped downwards, just as a non-free-floated barrel does not necessarily suggest that the barrel is warped. Perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying.
- I admit that I have never measured the amount of pressure or flex on an unfloated tang.
- I believe that floating the tang, since unlike some rifles, there is no action screw there, is simply a part of stresslessly bedding the action.
- Does floating or not floating the tang affect accuracy? Some say yes. I will not argue with them. Some say no. I will not argue with them. I have never done (or seen) any true scientific testing to see which camp is correct.

- Like many things we in the shooting sports world do, if it makes you feel good about your rifle, it is often worth doing for the psychological effect is has, even if it has no discernible or measurable effect.

I am not arguing one way or the other, simply amplifying my earlier post.
My question was predicated upon the notion that if the tang was warped up, it would obviate relieving the stock since it wouldn't be binding. Really, you could have three things acting upon the tang separately or severally-warped tang, bad inletting or overtorquing action screws.

Actually, barrel warpage is independant of free-floating; that is, it can occur either bedded or floated. I guess you're speaking more about barrel binding?

Otherwise, I agree. It's certainly harmless and may in some cases actually help. I was simply wondering if pre-emptively dealing with a problem that may or may not exist is worth the effort based upon (so far) anecdotal data.

[thomae]

... barrel warpage is independant of free-floating... My point exactly. As the statistician might say, "With no other data, correlation does not imply causation." I believe we are on the same page.

[tobnpr]

Not knowing that you're "not supposed" to bed the rear tang when I did my rifle, I did so...
With the factory barrel, all holes (7-08) touching at 100 yards.
Sounds like it worked just fine to me.

New barrel just installed, re-bedded due to recoil lug change. I can always grind out the bedding under tang if I need to..we'll see.

My reasoning is that if the bedding job is PROPERLY done, and the receiver is not stressed during the process- and there are pillars installed- there should be no stress placed on the receiver from "flexing" or "warping" or whatever, because the receiver should be just calmly sitting there, stress-free and happy when the action screws are tightened.

Just because the rear tang is touching it's epoxy bedding will not induce stress into the receiver, IMO.

[ellobo]

This is my engineering take on this. If the entire action is bedded with contact uniformly, including tang, there should not be any stress introduced in the action. But, if, like on many actions there is no bedding under the tang and it is in contact with the stock then torquing the screws will induce a stress downward on the rest of the action. I doubt if the proper torque is used there will be enough stress induced to make a difference. Over torquing might. It would take a setup using
stress measuring attachments to the parts and and applying torque to get a reading of distortion. So far it hasn't been done by anyone, to my knowledge, on a Savage action. thus said, I will err on the side of caution and free float the tang.

[BillPa]

It would take a setup using stress measuring attachments to the parts and and applying torque to get a reading of distortion.

So far it hasn't been done by anyone

....except yours truly! :p
http://i45.tinypic.com/2s13n6w.jpg

Bill

.

[Opus Dei]

....except yours truly! :p
http://i45.tinypic.com/2s13n6w.jpg

Bill

.
This is my engineering take on this. If the entire action is bedded with contact uniformly, including tang, there should not be any stress introduced in the action. But, if, like on many actions there is no bedding under the tang and it is in contact with the stock then torquing the screws will induce a stress downward on the rest of the action. I doubt if the proper torque is used there will be enough stress induced to make a difference. Over torquing might. It would take a setup using
stress measuring attachments to the parts and and applying torque to get a reading of distortion. So far it hasn't been done by anyone, to my knowledge, on a Savage action. thus said, I will err on the side of caution and free float the tang.That's a Remington with a load-bearing tang and not a Savage with a (theoretically) unstressed receiver extension, no?

I still would be interested in your findings.

[geargrinder]

Well let's just put it simply if we can. A floated tang will not stress the action and an improperly bedded tang will. It is much easier to float it than to properly bed it. Ok i know someone is going to say i can bed it with no stress but i am talking about the average person doing the bedding job. In the end you do what ever trips your trigger and gives you the best end results.

+1

Well put.

[ellobo]

When I mentioned a stress test I was talking about transducers placed on the action that will detect the minutest distortion, down to hundreds of thousandths of an inch. Not dial indicators. When during a class on stress testing with transducers at Boeing I took a 1 inch dia steel bar, equipped with transducers, that had knurling at both ends. I made a twisting motion on the bar with my hands and a torsional deflection was recorded. You can't do that with dial indicators. I seriously doubt that tightening the mounting screws will distort the action enough at all to induce a stress worth worrying about. But, as I said, I will err on the side of caution.

El Lobo