Nikon Monarch VS Leuopld

[M.O.A.]

Just to let the OP know Natchez has all scopes on sale

[aw800r]

Vortex = "Made in the Philippines". Just remember the old adage "You get what you pay for".

[1ShotKing]

I don't think Leupold is a perfect brand. I will start by saying I never owned one myself. I work at a gun/hunting shop and I have mounted two Leupold scopes on rifles. One was a VX2 that was a POS to say the least. It was nowhere near as clear as a Bushnell Elite or Legend Ultra HD, and the magnification ring was so stiff one person had to hold the rifle to prevent it from twisting while another turned the ring. Best part of all? It was stuck at its lowest power, 4x. (Scope was 4-14x40). Brand new out of the box VX2 with issues. Next was a VX1 3-9x40. Nice scope, except for quality control must have been on break when this scope sneaked through. I took the scope out of the box, mounted it and bore sighted it. Then when I went to put the windage cap back on the **** thing was cross threaded from the factory, it would not go back on. The owner assured me it was never out of packaging before. Leupold did send him new caps. I don't mean to crap on Leupold for the sake of doing so, this is just my experience. With that being said, I am interested in a Mark 4 for my next rifle build, but I will be staying away from lower end Leupold.

1ShotKing

[davemuzz]

Dave, I think what WestCliff is saying is that it is more likely that you lost zero because something else shifted... not your scope. Bases to rifle, rings to bases, rings to scope. Those are all places where a small shift will equate to big change in zero. That would be my guess.

Trent,

Yes. Thanks for clearing up my fuzzy view of his post. WestCliff, my appoligies for jumping down your eye-sockets last night. I had "other distractions" that were spilling over on this forum...and a few other post I made on a few other forums last evening. She went to work this am. :)

It could have been the rings. Possible. Perhaps the way the scope banged off the door jamb and was "leveraged" against the rifle. I'm not tossing in the towel yet. I'll bang it around for some time yet as I'm not going back to WY until next September. However, between now and then I will be "picking up" an new VX-3 with a 25-X max, and I'll use 'em both and then make up my mind.

But I've not had any issues with my VX-1 or VX-2. I'd recommend 'em in a heartbeat to anyone who is considering buying a Leupold. The only Leupold I was not happy with was the EER 2.5-8X handgun. (I think the low end was 2.5??) I found that scope had to small of an eye relief window for a handgun scope. I used that scope for 4 years and when I sold all of my Contender frames and barrels, that scope went as well.

FWIW

Dave

[davemuzz]

Try one before you judge. Also, they are assembled in the Philippines but the glass is Japanese. Even Leupold uses Japanese glass.

True that!! I don't think any glass is made here in the gold 'ol USA.

I tell ya....if you want to get a thread going on any forum.....just ask a question about what would be a good scope (or even the "best" scope) to mount on your 834-Loudn'n-boomer!! When your all done, you'll just say the heck with it.....I'm gonna buy what I though I would anyway!! (Just don't buy a TASCO!!)

[1ShotKing]

Well based on the fact that I watched him take it out of the box, the turrets were on zero and not a mark on the scope, yes I believe him.

[Westcliffe01]

If you can afford a Mk4 Leupold, you can afford a Nightforce scope and there are more long distance shooters who vouch for Nightforce than I have heard singing praises for Leupold. (Talking $1500+ here).

[1ShotKing]

I think the OP is looking in the $400 price range.
Yeah Westcliffe01 just felt the need to get his opinion in on my previous post. You are correct.

1ShotKing

[Westcliffe01]

In the <$500 range it is hard to beat Nikon and Vortex (both SFP scopes). On my last rodeo I bit the bullet and spent the extra money on the 4x16-50 FFP PST scope at half the price of the Nightforce scope. Perhaps it was a mistake not to spend the extra $50 to get the 6-24, but in future I will probably get one of those and migrate the 4-16 to my 223. I have 2 rifles I am going to be selling, a TC Icon in 308 and a Remington 700 Classic in 8mm Mauser so I have weapons to sell that I could package the Nikon scopes on.

[Westcliffe01]

Right now the PST is on my model 12 243 for shooting coyotes when there is either wind in the forecast or if hunting across some of the big open areas where long shots are typical. I'm not hunting up or down mountain slopes, so I don't mind a 12lb rifle for this job. if more than 1 comes in, then one is always doing follow up shots on running dogs which is where a FFP is very useful because the subtentions are always the same for holdover.

[mattm0812]

Nikon Buckmaster. Love mine.

[helotaxi]

True that!! I don't think any glass is made here in the gold 'ol USA. Correct. There is no US optics industry and there never has been.


Try one before you judge. Also, they are assembled in the Philippines but the glass is Japanese. Even Leupold uses Japanese glass.The Vortex scopes that are made in the Philippines use glass made in the Philippines as well. Regardless of where it was made, all the Vortex optics that I own are of very good to excellent optical quality and perform well above what their price point would suggest telling me that they have worked on finding the best ratio of product performance vs. production costs for each of their lines.

Only Leupold knows where their glass comes from and they ain't tellin'. They will narrow it down no more than "from Asian and European" suppliers. I would bet a case of beer (at least) that the glass for several of their lines comes from China and the Philippines. Some of their stuff is flat out made in China.


Vortex = "Made in the Philippines". Just remember the old adage "You get what you pay for". The Crossfire line is made in China, the Diamondback line in the PI and the Viper lines made in either the PI or Japan. The Razor line are entirely made in Japan. Not only do you get what you pay for, but the company that specs products to be manufactured gets what they pay for. Country of origin is irrelevant to quality. If the company specifies a certain design, a certain level of quality control and a certain level of acceptable returns, and are willing to pay for that, they get what they pay for. China has figured this out as have the Philippines; Japan has known it for a long time. The OEMs know that if they don't provide quality when it's demanded and paid for, they will lose the contract. If you want to talk about getting what you pay for, you should have a really large wad of cash in your pocket since that's what buying a Leupold is paying for with the owners of the company. Their markup is well into the "silly" range.

[nsaqam]

There has been a US optics industry.

When Weaver was in El Paso they not only used American glass but ground it and coated it in their own facility on machinery they designed and built themselves.

They were truly 100% American made.

Leupold sources their glass offshore and maybe some small components but the vast majority of their manufacturing produces chips right in Oregon.

Got no problem with Leupold making a ton of cash. That's what companies are supposed to do and Leupold employs a bunch of American workers who in turn support the communities they live in.
The new VX-2's are a really good value even compared to 100% offshore manufactured scopes.

I've bought two of them recently and they are on par with any scope in their price range and I've never been a Leupold slut.

[efm77]

Swift claims to use American made glass.

[yorketransport]

As far as the original post, I have a Monarch 4-16x and it's a good scope. It's noticeably better than the 6-18x Buckmasters that I have. Neither is as nice as the 6-24x Bushnell 4200 I've had for years. They are all good scopes though. In the price range you're looking at I'd try to find a used VX-III scope or buy a VX-2. They're all great general purpose hunting scopes.

Andrew

[davemuzz]

Well, I've been "searching" around for a used VX-III on various forums for about 3 weeks now and I can't seem to find a used one out there. I don't want the older Vari-X Leupold scope but one of the newer VX's. For those who complain about the Leupold, I can find other brands, but not a Leupold.

[M.O.A.]

Well, I've been "searching" around for a used VX-III on various forums for about 3 weeks now and I can't seem to find a used one out there. I don't want the older Vari-X Leupold scope but one of the newer VX's. For those who complain about the Leupold, I can find other brands, but not a Leupold.

Try long range hunting forum they ha e quite a few vary good scopes for sale used

[helotaxi]

I've seen Leupold quoted in text that they source their glass from Japan. I'll try to find it but it was a couple years ago. If I remember correctly it was when I was taking a test created by Leupold to better learn their product line/history to sell their scopes. (Was working in a gun shop). They said that they get their glass from Japan uncoated and do all their coatings in-house. Like I said though, it's been a couple years and I'll see what I can do about finding it. Although, what is true at one time doesn't mean that it is always true. Cheers.

Their website now says "Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years." Not sure who the domestic supplier is since the EPA has made it all but impossible to produce optical quality glass in this country. If the Asian stuff was all from Japan, rest assured that they would say so since it would be to their benefit. I'm sure that some of it is from Japan. Most quality optics companies that don't produce their glass in-house use Japanese sourced lenses in at least some of their lines.

You'll get no argument from me about a company being in business to make money, but the number I've seen is a 60% mark up for Leupold. US Optics makes what I would consider a better scope and one that I would spend my money on and their mark up is 10%.

[nsaqam]

And US Optics variable scopes start at $1205 for a 1-4X.
If you want a variable that runs up to 10X you'll spend $1670 and have to carry around 30oz of scope!

[davemuzz]

You'll get no argument from me about a company being in business to make money, but the number I've seen is a 60% mark up for Leupold. US Optics makes what I would consider a better scope and one that I would spend my money on and their mark up is 10%.

Helotaxi, That's some interesting percentages you have there.....but I just wonder the source of these numbers. Companies are in business to be competitive, gain market share, and make a profit. Not to be nice guys.


Trent and MOA.....thanks for the info. I'll be taking a look there.

Dave