111 blew up at the range today

[ellobo]

The badly burned rifling ahead of the bulge is the definitive clue that it was some kind of obstruction. The burning occurs at the point of the obstruction in most cases and stops when the obstruction is moved or blown up. What concerns me is the fact the barrel seems to have split uniformly for quite a distance. Almost too cleanly.

El Lobo

[LabRat2k3]

Whatever the cause you better get rid of it quick before the BATFe gets you for creating a SBR without a stamp.

[hrdbul]

I talked with Savage customer service today, advised that it would be $250.00 for a new barrel. Not real happy with that answer for about the same price I could get a PAC-Nor from just down the road. Well an email from a fellow employee and they made things what I would consider fair and appropriate. Just have to see it it gets back in time for Elk on 10/24/12

[jerkin]

At our DNR range, there are the remains of several blown up muzzleloaders where the shooter left the ramrod in the barrel when he fired. That is a real obstruction alright !

A buddy of mine just did that last year but it didn't do anything to the gun, just blew the rod into pieces.

[tobnpr]

I talked with Savage customer service today, advised that it would be $250.00 for a new barrel. Not real happy with that answer for about the same price I could get a PAC-Nor from just down the road. Well an email from a fellow employee and they made things what I would consider fair and appropriate. Just have to see it it gets back in time for Elk on 10/24/12

And they're not interested in seeing the barrel, despite the fact that your are certain there was no barrel obstruction?

[wbm]

Wouldn't even think about re-barreling that thing until a qualified gun smith took a really close look at the receiver. Over max load producing blown primer, split case, etc. I could buy but a split barrel without an obstruction?....I don't think so!

[Elkbane]

hrdbul,
You said in a previous post that you cased the rifle after cleaning, but before the event occurred. Soft case with zippered edge or hard case? If you used a soft case, have you looked down in the bottom of the case to see whether any debris could have gotten pushed down into the muzzle? Just thinking about this gives me the shakes. And it made me realize, I almost never check the muzzle end of my soft cases for debris - just unzip half way and slide the rifle in..............I usually pull the bolt and look through the barrel at the range before firing, but not always - will probably be a little more diligent about that afetr reading this.

And I'm glad you're OK.
Elkbane

Also, is it an optical illusion or am I seeing it wrong - in the first picture you posted the right side of the barrel looks like it is twice as thick as the left side. Almost looks like the bore isn't cnetered in the barrel blank??? Doesn't look as distorted in teh second picture.

[hrdbul]

It was about a 25/75 split on the barrel

[hrdbul]

The gun is on its way back to Savage as we speak, they will be replacing the barrel. Elkbane, that is the only thing possible, something in the end of the soft case.

[tobnpr]

Here's the thing...
Anything even reasonably loose in the barrel is gonna get blown right out...
Loose dirt...a little piece of styrofoam from a soft case...this stuff will not blow up a barrel.

For cripes sake, it seems like some of you are suggesting that if a fly ended up in the end of the barrel before he shot it...

It doesn't work like that. Just pushing the bullet through the rifling requires extreme pressures. A little piece of crud in the end of the barrel isn't going to cause it to explode.

Just look at all the videos online of torture tests of the HK 416 being pulled out of the mud, sand, water, etc. and fired...it takes more than that to blow up a barrel.

[mattm0812]

I feel like it's more of barrel defect than an obstruction...

[Nandy]

Just the thought that something as small and fragile as a spider could blow up a barrel is cause of concern but also a little of skepticism... Has anyone demonstrated this?

[tobnpr]

No, because it could never happen....

[Admin]

Ok, the OP has sent the rifle back to Savage for inspection and repair. You can all stop speculating, theorizing, bench racing, bar bantering, etc. until he gets a report back and share's the official word with us.

[Nandy]

Ok, the OP has sent the rifle back to Savage for inspection and repair. You can all stop speculating, theorizing, bench racing, bar bantering, etc. until he gets a report back and share's the official word with us.

sorry, was not trying to speculate in this particular situation but to me it seemed that many people believed an insect could do this. I was just wondering if that is possible... It was an interesting thread though....

[MaDa]

Just the thought that something as small and fragile as a spider could blow up a barrel is cause of concern but also a little of skepticism... Has anyone demonstrated this?
im sure the spider comment was out of sarcasm. If not, well I don't think the spider theory holds more water than a fishing net.


I feel like it's more of barrel defect than an obstruction...

I find this extremely hard to beleive.

[Westcliffe01]

I suggest to the OP that when Savage has replaced the barrel, he request that the remains get sent back. I do a lot of failure analysis and the damaged area can get mounted , polished and etched and under a microscope it will be pretty clear what has happened. The forging marks in the material should be clear and some of the obstructing material will be smeared into the surface of the rifling. By analyzing the chemical composition, one should be able to determine what the obstruction was made of. Theoretically all one should find on the barrel is the barrel parent material, a very slight trace of copper and a tiny amount of powder residue. Anything else in there (silica and other inorganics) would indicate dirt or mud, or whatever the obstruction was made of.

The cartridge involved has a high powder capacity and a relatively small bore, so this type of weapon is very likely to split the barrel if there is an obstruction, even near the muzzle. If there had been something totally out of whack with the cartridge the damage would probably occurred near the breech. If, for example, the primer had gone off and there had been a delayed ignition of the powder, it is possible that the bullet would have been pushed into the bore, but without an obstruction it should still have emerged cleanly from the bore if the powder ignited a short while later.

[Baryngyl]

I notice your in Oregon, that is not to far from where I am at.
Do you have those mud dauber wasp type things that build mud nests in small holes?
About 12 years ago I had a rifle that sat for a week or so after I cleaned it, I went to use it and looked thru the bore, no light showed, the bore was plugged, it ended up being full of hardened mud and eggs, there was mud/egg/mud/egg/mud/egg/mud about 2 1/2 inches of it in the end of the barrel, it was very hard to remove, almost as if it was glued in.


Michael Grace

[MikeS in CO]

If I remember correctly the secondary pressure spike can be caused by too little powder in the case. A proper charge will burn but an undersized charge is loose enough to explode. I don't know if this tends to occur with the projectile close to the chamber or farther down the barrel. It is a good idea to stay close to the starting loads and recommended powders from the books as a starting point. If it was a reload, was the charge weighed or thrown, and was a visual inspection done before seating the bullet? Also, only one powder open on the bench?

It would be nice if the cause could be determined as this is probably a cheap lesson we can all learn from. Cheap as in only money was lost.

[JohnMill]

That's just about where a patch could get pulled back to. My new 6.5 jag hates to shed patches on the muzzle. I have taken to looking through the bore now (more than I ever did before)

JohnMill