Who has successfully removed the mag box spacer in a 223?

[TXNative]

I need another .100" to seat 75gr AMax's to the lands.

Second, 69gr SMK's when seated to the lands fit the mag box but they will not feed, they hit the barrel below the bore by a 1/16" or more.

How do I address this other than seating the bullets deeper?

This is the project, a Stevens I bought a year ago and dropped a 3/8" steel fuel line in the center channel of the tupperware stock and filled it full with Devcon, installed an EGW base and Savage big bolt handle. I plan on switching the handle to a Tactical Works handle but I will leave the Conquest on it for the long haul. I don't like the bulky picatinny rings and they are too high so I will change those out too. It shoots pretty dang good as is but I am still playing with different loads.

My youngest daughter smacked her first whitetail doe with it last year using the 69gr SMK and claimed the gun. She does not know but she has a Savage 11 243 on layaway and my oldest has a Stevens 200 243 on the way, both will get rigged up for Christmas this year. I banked on 85gr TSX's and bought 600 for the girls rifles and a 6mm Remington problem child that happens to like the TSX.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6032/6370948187_d71777a330_b.jpg

[kschilling]

Is it a centerfeed (attached to the bottom of the stock) or a stager feed mag (attached to the bottom of the receiver)? If you can take a pic of it, text it too me or email it.

Ken Schilling

580.583.4134
kmschilling@gmail.com

[TXNative]

Ken, it's a staggered feed.

[skypilot]

Got a picture? It's a blind mag?

[TXNative]

Mag is attached to the receiver, blind, staggered feed.

It appears that bending the lips on the mag box may be all that is needed to feed the 69 SMK but I still want to know about removing the spacer.

This is the 69 SMK that touches the lands and fits in the mag box, however, it will not feed due to hitting the face of the barrel.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8039/7975948035_08a53d684f_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8302/7975948223_e9708cff8c_b.jpg

[TRguy]

Love what you did with the Stevens, I have done something similar http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?14494-Stevens-200-in-223

Mine loves 68gr Hornady HPBT, I see where your cartridge is hitting the barrel face. I wonder if you shortened the mag lips it would release the cartridge sooner allowing it to feed better?

Did you do any trigger work to it, modify or replace with a Timney or Rifle Basix?

I would love to know your technique for the spider webbing on the stock using the black paint.

TRguy

[skypilot]

I broke the lip of the mag box to receiver clip accidently. It did allow longer OAL to feed but I had no spacer on that .243 blind mag. I have considered what you are thinking on the .223 det. mag spacer in order to feed 75 AMax. I was wondering if it could be cut back with a Dremel. You are speaking of the rear mag spacer where the case head touches?

[375Win]

I have removed the spacer in one of my stagger feeds but run into the same problem as you. I have tweeked feed lips till I'm blue in the face and think it is the feed ramp that is the problem. The cartridge shoulder has to hit the feed ramp to lift the point of the bullet to clear the chamber openning. I can get BT's and SP's to feed a little longer but large HP's like the 52gr Speer are tough to seat long. I think a little build up on the feed ramp might be the solution. The same ramp is used for .473 based cartridges also and there is no problems with feeding, the chamber openning is much large and the bullet tip clears. I'm loading 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204, with BT's I can load to 2.41"

[243LPR]

Wouldn't you also have to replace the bolt head with one w/o the extension if you remove the spacer?

[MZ5]

I have a 10FP-UV in 223 Rem, which is a standard short-action, stagger-feed, blind-mag, accu-trigger model with a Choate stock. It had the long bolt stop which I replaced with a 'normal' one from a long action 110 I used to have, and it has the magazine block in the back. That magazine block is simply an upside-down "U" shaped piece of steel that serves both as a block and also as the back of the magazine box. There are metal tabs/ears on both legs of the "U" which go through slots on the side walls of the magazine box. Bending those tabs out straight and then spreading the sides of the magazine box will allow you to remove the block. Once you do that, you no longer have anything across the back of the magazine; it's just 'open' at the back. Also, I found that more often than not the tabs/ears will break off when you try to bend them out straight. NOTE: You'll want to remove the magazine box entirely from the receiver if you intend to remove the block without destroying it or the magazine in the process, since at least for me it was impossible to spread the sides of the box enough without seriously bending things to accomplish this with the magazine mounted to the receiver.

I was messing with this on mine because I want(ed) to shoot 75-grain A-Maxes at 2.5" COAL, which obviously won't fit the magazine. They will, however, fit into the mag just one at a time (with just one round in the mag, the bullet tip is not low enough to hit the feed ramp or front of the magazine box). Doing this, I also cannot get the rounds to chamber properly. They hit the face of the barrel, just like they do on yours.

So, how did/do I solve this problem? Two ways:
1) I could load one-at-a-time, but not in the magazine; just lay them on top or start them into the chamber. This works, but not at all well for 'precision' rifle matches. An alternative is to use a single-shot follow, but that results in the same difficulty for the rifle matches I like to shoot in.
2) I switched to 77-grain SMKs. I can actually get them to shoot better in my rifle than the A-Maxes, and I can get them to do it at a COAL that just _barely_ fits the magazine. They're considerably more expensive, though, so this is not a 'high-volume' shooting solution for me. Perhaps the Nosler Custom Comps, or even the 69 grain SMK, will also shoot well for me; I haven't tried them.

HTH, if only a little bit.

[TXNative]

I broke the lip of the mag box to receiver clip accidently. It did allow longer OAL to feed but I had no spacer on that .243 blind mag. I have considered what you are thinking on the .223 det. mag spacer in order to feed 75 AMax. I was wondering if it could be cut back with a Dremel. You are speaking of the rear mag spacer where the case head touches?

Yes, I am talking about the spacer at the back of the mag box, it is stamped steel and attached to the mag box with small tabs.



Love what you did with the Stevens, I have done something similar http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?14494-Stevens-200-in-223

Mine loves 68gr Hornady HPBT, I see where your cartridge is hitting the barrel face. I wonder if you shortened the mag lips it would release the cartridge sooner allowing it to feed better?

Did you do any trigger work to it, modify or replace with a Timney or Rifle Basix?

I would love to know your technique for the spider webbing on the stock using the black paint.

TRguy

Yes, I did install a Rifle Basix trigger, I believe the model is Sav-1 if I remember correctly. The webbing paint is off the shelf Krylon Webbing paint but you probably won't find it at the typically places you buy spray paint, I found it at Hobby Lobby.



I have removed the spacer in one of my stagger feeds but run into the same problem as you. I have tweeked feed lips till I'm blue in the face and think it is the feed ramp that is the problem. The cartridge shoulder has to hit the feed ramp to lift the point of the bullet to clear the chamber openning. I can get BT's and SP's to feed a little longer but large HP's like the 52gr Speer are tough to seat long. I think a little build up on the feed ramp might be the solution. The same ramp is used for .473 based cartridges also and there is no problems with feeding, the chamber openning is much large and the bullet tip clears. I'm loading 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204, with BT's I can load to 2.41"

I believe you are correct, but short of welding additional metal at the top of the ramp and re-contouring it I don't know how it could be raised.



Wouldn't you also have to replace the bolt head with one w/o the extension if you remove the spacer?

If the spacer is completely removed, I think the bolt buffer should be replaced with the 243 buffer. On the other hand, I only need .100" of room, if I move the spacer back I would grind the bolt buffer the same amount and believe I could continue using the 223 feed ramp.



I have a 10FP-UV in 223 Rem, which is a standard short-action, stagger-feed, blind-mag, accu-trigger model with a Choate stock. It had the long bolt stop which I replaced with a 'normal' one from a long action 110 I used to have, and it has the magazine block in the back. That magazine block is simply an upside-down "U" shaped piece of steel that serves both as a block and also as the back of the magazine box. There are metal tabs/ears on both legs of the "U" which go through slots on the side walls of the magazine box. Bending those tabs out straight and then spreading the sides of the magazine box will allow you to remove the block. Once you do that, you no longer have anything across the back of the magazine; it's just 'open' at the back. Also, I found that more often than not the tabs/ears will break off when you try to bend them out straight. NOTE: You'll want to remove the magazine box entirely from the receiver if you intend to remove the block without destroying it or the magazine in the process, since at least for me it was impossible to spread the sides of the box enough without seriously bending things to accomplish this with the magazine mounted to the receiver.

I was messing with this on mine because I want(ed) to shoot 75-grain A-Maxes at 2.5" COAL, which obviously won't fit the magazine. They will, however, fit into the mag just one at a time (with just one round in the mag, the bullet tip is not low enough to hit the feed ramp or front of the magazine box). Doing this, I also cannot get the rounds to chamber properly. They hit the face of the barrel, just like they do on yours.

So, how did/do I solve this problem? Two ways:
1) I could load one-at-a-time, but not in the magazine; just lay them on top or start them into the chamber. This works, but not at all well for 'precision' rifle matches. An alternative is to use a single-shot follow, but that results in the same difficulty for the rifle matches I like to shoot in.
2) I switched to 77-grain SMKs. I can actually get them to shoot better in my rifle than the A-Maxes, and I can get them to do it at a COAL that just _barely_ fits the magazine. They're considerably more expensive, though, so this is not a 'high-volume' shooting solution for me. Perhaps the Nosler Custom Comps, or even the 69 grain SMK, will also shoot well for me; I haven't tried them.

HTH, if only a little bit.


I agree, the problem appears to be with the feed ramp and not the mag box lips or follower.

I noticed the 75 Amax seated long will chamber fine loaded in the mag one at a time, as you said, the bullet tip sits on top of the front edge of the box because it is too long to fit the box. On the other hand, the 69 SMK will not feed from the box when seated long.

I have no interest in modifying the receiver so the best solution for me is to seat the the bullets to fit the mag box or choose different bullets. The 69 SMK shoots pretty good so I will keep working with the Amax to fine tune the load around 2.390".