Extraction Issues - Model 10 FCP-K .308

[DubGunner]

New member and pretty thrilled to learn of a Savage specific forum that might be able to help sort through an issue I'm having. New FCP-K bought in March. Shoots factory ammo fine, but reloads which have been full length resized get stuck with regularity. Neck sized brass is fine most of the time, very few get stuck. Brand of brass doesn't seem to matter.

Empty cases that get stuck in this gun don't get stuck in my other .308 which is an M1A. I've measured every aspect of the cases that get stuck that I'm capable of measuring, and I can't find anything different compared to those that don't get stuck. Ammo made in the same process shoots fine out of the M1A too by the way, none have ever gotten stuck.

I've tried trimming to different lengths, resizing to different headspace lengths. I'm shooting primarily 168/175 SMKs and have tried various loads of IMR4064, IMR4895, and Varget but the problem occurs with as little as 41 gr of charge.

I'm using Lee FL dies, and have tried multiple shoulder positions but with no result. I have a set of RCBS dies that I'm going to try as well, but haven't had a chance yet.

I called Savage yesterday and they said that unless they can recreate the issue with factory loads they can't help me. So here I am. What am I missing, and what suggestions does the Savage brain trust have for me?

[sharpshooter]

What exactly do you mean by "they get stuck"?

[DubGunner]

Bolt knob rotates up but is a little stiff. Attempts to remove the bolt fail, it will not pull the case from the chamber. To get the case out of the chamber requires a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle and a gentle tap to knock the case loose.

[short round]

Could be primary extraction problem. With bolt closed, check clearence between rear baffle & receiver with feeler gauge, if more than 0.010" , primary extraction could be the problem,primary extraction is when case is pulled out of chamber, before the bolt is manually pulled to the rear. Also dedicate brass to bolt gun. Swapping brass between guns can cause problems.

[DubGunner]

Thanks for the tip, I'll check the clearance when I get home tonight. Is 0.010" the official savage spec? Also, if the case was officially "stuck" does primary extraction vs secondary extraction even matter?

All the brass in question has only been fired in this rifle.

[pitsnipe]

Short round,

I purchased (in February) and picked up late May an FLCP-K in .308. Although I havent had a case NOT come out using just the bolt. I have had PLENTY that are slightly "stiffer" to set to battery and equally "stiffer" to open and eject. As with you, factory loads are smooth in and out, and not until they are sized (FL) are they "tougher" to set to battery and to remove. I have made a few adjustments to my Lee dies as well. To no avail. So I have rather gotten used to it. And have chalked it up to a tighter chamber than my much older Winchester that with the same brass have no resistance to battery and eject as with the Savage.
Hope you find your answer to the stuck brass. I have also gone to cleaning my brass much more completly and that has helped a little.
Good luck.

[sharpshooter]

You have a primary extraction problem. The gap between the bolt handle and baffle means nothing. The real problem is where the ramp on the bolt handle contacts the ramp on the rear baffle. Most of all the newer rifles have bolt handles that are out of spec. The ramp on the bolt handles have been machined to clean up a casting defect, leaving more clearance between the ramps, resulting in no primary extraction at all.

[JMUPT]

I have a 110 FCP in 338 lapua and my bolt lift is normal but when i go to pull the bolt back it will not move, if I push the bolt back down and try it again it will open. It doesn't do it all the time maybe 1 or 2 rounds out of 10. I'm reloading new nosler brass and all loads are under book max. Should I send it back to savage or just deal with it when it happens

[DubGunner]

You have a primary extraction problem. The gap between the bolt handle and baffle means nothing. The real problem is where the ramp on the bolt handle contacts the ramp on the rear baffle. Most of all the newer rifles have bolt handles that are out of spec. The ramp on the bolt handles have been machined to clean up a casting defect, leaving more clearance between the ramps, resulting in no primary extraction at all.

There's a huge gap on the rear baffle and action body. The largest feeler I have is 0.024" and I can almost fit two of them in there.

[SHL540KB308]

Might try cutting your primer pockets after the first firing and see what happens. Some things just need room to expand.

Later, Brad

[DubGunner]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have uniformed all the pockets on the offending brass. I have also tried using Lake City NATO based that had been swaged, and they get stuck too.

[DubGunner]

You have a primary extraction problem. The gap between the bolt handle and baffle means nothing. The real problem is where the ramp on the bolt handle contacts the ramp on the rear baffle. Most of all the newer rifles have bolt handles that are out of spec. The ramp on the bolt handles have been machined to clean up a casting defect, leaving more clearance between the ramps, resulting in no primary extraction at all.

I think you nailed it with primary extraction. The ramp on the bolt doesnt barely touch the baffle with the bolt fully rotated up. It doesnt have any "oomph" to move the brass the first few milimeters. When i stick a blade of the feeler gage in there it opens right up.

Holy crap what a simple problem but so hard to diagnose. Thanks for the tip. Now lets hope i can convince savage to fix it.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7600389730_94d0b49944.jpg

[DubGunner]

Another update, spoke to Savage this morning and they are sending me a new baffle. If it doesn't fix it, I'll need to send the rifle back to them. Fingers crossed....

[pitsnipe]

DubGunner
Let us know how it works out for you. As I may just have to do the same thing and not settle on a stiff bolt lift and ejection.

[DubGunner]

Received the new baffle, it helped but didn't fix it. The dimensions of the new baffle vs the original were identical, but the new baffle still had coating material on the ramp face that engages the bolt handle. Just a tiny amount of material helped with primary extraction, but I could tell even after 4-5 attempts that the coating material was getting worn away and that the problem would certainly return.

UPS picked up the complete rifle and it's on its way back to Savage so that they can have a look.

So the issue is to much gap between the baffle and bolt handle. Replacing the baffle with new didn't fix it, I'm also wondering if any of the aftermarket replacement bolt handles might help? Seems like it should work as is, and I'm hoping that Savage will do the right thing here and find a solution, but you never know.

[johnjohn301]

Bolt knob rotates up but is a little stiff. Attempts to remove the bolt fail, it will not pull the case from the chamber. To get the case out of the chamber requires a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle and a gentle tap to knock the case loose.

I have the same problem with a new (May 2012) Model 12 LRP .243, except that mine will get stuck with factory ammo or hand loads. Have searched the web and found enough references to this that it's not un-common. I called Savage - they sounded a little bewildered which I thought was curious as I am pretty sure I'm no where near the first to have this issue - based on the other examples I found. They said send it back and they'd look at it. Waiting just a little longer before I pack it up and send it back. Really curious to see how your situation turns out. Otherwise, it's such a nice shooter.

[hafejd30]

I have a 10 fcp in 308 that requires some effort to remove an un-fired reload (neck sized) round from the chamber. My buddys new fcp-k in 308 almost requires a mallet to tap the un-fired round out. Never had an issue with removing the casing after firing tho. This didnt matter if the round was loaded after 1 firing or 10. Always the same relults.

If anyone has a bore scope it would be very interesting to compare the chambers of the factory barrels from a few years ago to now. It seems were getting more and more issues with brass removal possiibly due to rough chambers.

[ellobo]

Sharpsooter has it right. As he said, the bolts have been machined to correct a defect which means the bolt is not contacting the ramp on the bafflle giving primary extraction. The baffle is not the problem, the bolt handle is. If you have another older Savage, try that bolt handle and see what happens. If not working either a new bolt handle will probably work if it isnt from Savage. It is the proper fit between the handle and baffle that gives the mechanical advantiage to extract the cartridge.

El Lobo

[stangfish]

So, I have found this issue and tried different work arounds. If I am understanding this correctly the ramp on the bolt handle is not engaging early enough? Does the bolt body neet to be modified to eliminate this issue or is the only fix to modify the depth of the counterbore of the bolt handle or get a new bolt handle? Or am I waaaaay Off?

Sharpshooter. Are you giving lessons on this fix?

[DubGunner]

There's no way to modify the bolt handle other than welding additional material. The bolt handle just doesn't have enough material, or the baffle doesn't, either way the gap between the two is just too big. Pretty disappointing to encounter such a simple issue on such a well known brand.