Need Help

[supergolfer18]

Skypilot: 1.263" was outside to outside. Less 0.277 for bullet diameter is how I was figuring the 1/2MOA

NOt sure if I am going to waste anymore bullets in the Savage the way it sits now I have a new BC stock on its way and also a Shilen match barrel. Might wait to shoot when all that comes in and get everything installed


If I swap scopes and shoot it today I will run 168BTHP through to see what I am getting

[supergolfer18]

Ok so I believe my stock barrel and action in the new BC Medalist stock is a 1.6 MOA rifle. Not sure how much better I can get it to shoot if I reload a match bullet? The stock definately felt better shooting this rifle. Ammo was Red Box BH 168 gr BTHP Match Ammo.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562728_608564751186_1479234311_n.jpg

[pdog06]

Are you heating the barrel up too fast? Those sporter barrels heat up fast and a little temp change can ruin a group.

I had my 22" sporter 223 out a couple weeks ago sighting the new scope in. After zeroing the scope i started shooting some groups. It was minute of groundhog but not as tight a group as i woulda liked. Then I realized i wasnt letting it cool evenly between shots so i set it aside for a bit. Came back to it once it cooled and shot a group and it was much better.

[supergolfer18]

I tried to be patient maybe I didn't wait. I shot 3,then cooled,then shot the last 2 shots. It handles about 3 shots before the barrel is too hot to hold

[thomae]

Try shooting one, then waiting 2-5 minutes with the bolt open to allow more cooling airflow.
Then repeat as necessary.

See if that makes a difference.
Almost every shot hunting (ok, not if you are shooting whistle pigs or prairie dogs) is a cold shot.

[supergolfer18]

Thanks for the advice everyone

I also want to check the action screws torque settings but dont have anything to do it with. Right now they are tightened as tight as I could get them without stripping or feeling like I was trying to break the screw off so not sure how many in/lbs torque that might be

[fgw_in_fla]

What Pdog says......

I deal with that frequently. I get a little impatient & fire the next round before the pipe is cool enough. My .270 is remarkably accurate, almost scary accurate & a hot / warm barrel will change that in a hurry.

Also, I noticed with my new 25.06 - Brand new barrel shot looser than after a "burning in". All it took was a couple a 70 to 80 rounds & I noticed groups tightening up. I rescued it from a pawn shop & later found out it was barely a year old. It had no indication of having been shot at all. No brass residue on the extractor, no residue or any kind, anywhere. On a good day, even bad days it was good for 3 to 4 round tight cloverleafs.

Good luck with it

Frank in Fla

[thomae]

Right now they are tightened as tight as I could get them without stripping or feeling like I was trying to break the screw off so not sure how many in/lbs torque that might be
Probably a bit tight. Invest in a 1/4" torque wrench. Even if it is not super accurate, it is better than nothing. They are not too expensive. You may be able to find a dial one used or at a flea market. Harbor Freight sells a click-type that goes on sale every now and then.

Without a torque wrench, but using your calibrated wrist, try tightening the action screws a little at a time one after the other until you get them "firmly" tight (but not "super duper" tight) using only your hand when twisting the short arm of an "L" shaped allen wrench. See if that helps at all. (Shade tree engineering at it's best!)

[supergolfer18]

I posted the beginning of my 168 amax development in another thread. I took advice and let barrel cool 8-10 min after each shot just to make sure it was cool. Results look promising so going to load up some more and hopefully shoot today

[supergolfer18]

ok shot again today and let the barrel sit for 5 minutes between each shot and it stayed hot to the touch the entire session. Even after I covered it with a towel. I am assuming this is not helping me out. Range is not sheltered so i covered the entire gun with a towel and timed 5 minutes between each shot

[skypilot]

Not sure about all the details at the your range but if it's over about 85-90 degrees ambient temp. the barrel is not gonna cool much especially in the sun. Mirage can be an issue from the ground heat and/or the barrel heat. This too can cause issues especially if you are shooting small targets such as a 1" dot at distance. They will dance around terribly due to mirage.

The temperature delta of the bullets will always have more affect on each individual shot more than the delta temp of the barrel from the initial zero point within reason.

What about some info on the ambient temp. @ the range, distance shot, target size, powder used, bipod or bags, mirage, wind, scope magnification when shot sent, etc?

[supergolfer18]

temp was 95 degrees F, shot at 100yds, at a 1" bullseye. Varget powder, no mirage, scope at 12x mag, slight breeze not more than 2mph, bipod on front, bag at the rear

Scope rings were tight and action screws tight. Crosshairs were locked in to target and not moving at all

[skypilot]

Sorry you are having so much trouble getting it to shoot properly.
If:
action is torqued properly,
the barrel free floated along with the tang,
bases, mounts and scope are all ok,
the accutrigger is installed,
you quit cleaning the barrel,
the barrel crown has no issue
you have tried adjusting seating depth
tried the factory loaded Federal 168 gr Sierra Match King BTBP and it still won't shoot I'd send it back or sell it as a normal, average hunting gun.

I have personally never seen a Savage not shoot well but Im not naive either. Wish I could be more hands on/eyes on help.

[supergolfer18]

barrel has about 20 rounds through it since my thorough copper cleaning. So should be good on that
not sure if the tang is floated? How do I check that
Accutrigger is installed
crown appears to be gtg
I have not messed with seating depth yet because I was trying to verify I was in a accuracy node
scope and rings appear good
I need to go see about getting a small torque wrench and check my action. Currently they are as tight as I could get them without stripping the screws

[skypilot]

The receiver needs to be torqued properly into the stock so that the barrel can free float or hang or cantilever off of the receiver. If the rear of the receiver where the tang safety is located is binding on the stock when the receiver is torqued down, it can cock the receiver up/down and or left/right depending on where/how the receiver is binding. The tang safety area of the stock must not interfere with the tang safety area of the receiver or the repeatable accuracy will be affected.

Yes, wait on the bullet seating variation until you verify that the receiver is free of stock interference and you're certain the barrel is floated. Does this new stock provide bedding for the receiver? For good repeatable accuracy the receiver needs to be bedded by you or come with a bedding method or accuracy will be erattic.

[supergolfer18]

yes BC Medalist stock has an full length alluminum bedding block

Well my new barrel came in today so I hope it will work great

[thomae]

not sure if the tang is floated? How do I check that

Take a crisp dollar (exact denomination not important) or a sheet of notebook paper, or an index card (that's 3 different thicknesses for you) and see if you can slide it between the stock and the tang. If it gets "stuck" then the tang is not free floating.

If you don't have access to a torque wrench, go to your closest reputable gunsmith, explain the problem and ask for his help to properly torque the stock. Offer to pay him for his services (his time is worth money). If he is friendly and does quality work, become a repeat customer.

Once your stock is properly torqued, then recheck the tang. I use an index card to make sure the tang is floated in all kinds of conditions. If the tang is not floating, then judicious use of a file, a dremel tool, or sandpaper wrapped around an appropriate sized dowel rod will take off enough material from the stock to float the tang.

Also, is the barrel free-floated? I never saw a response to Hafejd30's suggestion.


Check to make sure the barrel is free floated. Slide a piece of paper/$ bill between barrel and forend. These stocks flex alot in the forend. Check with whatever setup you use to shoot on as the stock may be flexing enough to touch barrel when forend is resting on bags/bipod.

We're all rooting for you to solve your problem.

[stangfish]

I don't remember if you ever put a tested trustworthy scope on this rifle. If it shoots good on the 270 then try it on the 308. If the trigger pull is heavy then lighten it up some. make sure your recoil lug is against the face of the action bed and the lug has clearance under the bottom. I don't believe torquing your stock is your problem if it is tight it is probably good enough for moa.*** The older wood stocks benefited from this more than the synthetics stocks did. If you go to a smith have him check your bore size rather than the torquing. the next thing is to check concentricity of the chamber to bore. But as was said before, that is getting into returning the rifle to savage zone.

***3lbs hanging on a 12 inch cheater sliped over your allen wrench is 36 inch/lbs at the horizontal position. 2lb's would be..24 inch/lbs. I think you can get close enough with that method to shoot MOA if that was the problem. I think it was 82boy who said this a while back "if you need to play with torque to get the rifle to shoot you need to bed the action."

[supergolfer18]

well I hope I can get this to shoot when I get it back. Gunsmith is putting new Shilen barrel I had ordered on there. That barrel looks awesome. Stainless varmint contour