How Much A Factor Are Oversized Barrels On Actions?

[Opus Dei]

We've all seen some massive barrels on target rifles. But surely, there's a tipping point where so much length and weight on a solid free-floating barrel are counterproductive. Has there ever been any studies to sort out how much is too much?

And No, I'm not thinking about such a barrel. It's purely for sake of curiosity after reading about someone with a 30" barrel. Thanks in advance.

[outlawsix]

A lot of it has to do with the action itself. A solid top, such as Savage target actions , have more rigidity over an action that has the top part cut away for easy of loading. Im sure information like you want has been researched either on benchrest forums or Precision Shooting magazine.

[82boy]

Well I will say this is a good question. I dont believe any one has done a study or test to see how much affect the barrel has on stressing the action. I can say this, it would take a barrel much thicker than 1 inch in diamter, to see any affect. But if you was going to run that thick of a barrel you would probly use a barrel block and free float the action anyway.

[Opus Dei]

I'm doing some searching. Anything I find interesting, I'll add to this thread.

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with the proposition that 21.75 inches is enough stick. Here's the story of the Houston warehouse shooters. http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

[Gmac5]

Ive been shooting 1.25 bull barrels for ever. A good book to read is RIFLE ACCURACY FACTS BY VAUGHN.many studies have been done going as far back as the 50 s action were sleved or strong backed,ive tested open top 10,110 and hav found measurable flex compared to sav prec action and believe it or not the axis!
That being said unless ur very serious about bench rest comp.,u probably wouldnt see any diff.so many variables to consider rigidity is certainly a part but more could be noticed with a ultra prem barreland act truing
Hope this helps,GARY

[cgeorgemo]

If the open top is a concern bolting on a steel one piece scope base would help to stiffen it up some wouldn't it?

[Opus Dei]

If the open top is a concern bolting on a steel one piece scope base would help to stiffen it up some wouldn't it?
I would think somewhat so; logically, it would be better to mount the rail before installing the barrel. I would guess that the screw hole alignment relative to the mount would indicate any stressing if the mount was installed after the barreling.

[outlawsix]

When you say that you mean due to the barrel pulling the action to flex? What if you mounted the scope base with the rifle muzzle down? That would negate any droop induced by the weigth of the barrel.

[82boy]

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with the proposition that 21.75 inches is enough stick. Here's the story of the Houston warehouse shooters. http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html


I will say that the Houston Warehouse projects are an interesting read, but you must keep in mind that this is mostly pertaining to the 6PPC, shooting light weight bullets. I would also mention that these experiments was done long ago, and a lot has changed since then. Yes this was history, and an interesting read, but it is not gosple.

[Eric in NC]

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with the proposition that 21.75 inches is enough stick. Here's the story of the Houston warehouse shooters. http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html


I will say that the Houston Warehouse projects are an interesting read, but you must keep in mind that this is mostly pertaining to the 6PPC, shooting light weight bullets. I would also mention that these experiments was done long ago, and a lot has changed since then. Yes this was history, and an interesting read, but it is not gosple.


Agreed - I see this referenced umpteen times and it isn't any kind of scientific study. It pertains to one cartridge, one barrel, one barrel steel, etc. etc. Changing the alloy of the barrel, changing the diameter of the barrel, or changing to 300 WSM would lead to totally different results. Interesting but doesn't really say anything unless you are trying to duplicate EXACTLY what they did.

[maddogg316]

I read an interesting article on this a while ago on accurateshooter.com
the writer took like a 40inch pipe and kept cutting it down and shooting groups to see what would happen!

[Opus Dei]

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with the proposition that 21.75 inches is enough stick. Here's the story of the Houston warehouse shooters. http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html


I will say that the Houston Warehouse projects are an interesting read, but you must keep in mind that this is mostly pertaining to the 6PPC, shooting light weight bullets. I would also mention that these experiments was done long ago, and a lot has changed since then. Yes this was history, and an interesting read, but it is not gosple.


Agreed - I see this referenced umpteen times and it isn't any kind of scientific study. It pertains to one cartridge, one barrel, one barrel steel, etc. etc. Changing the alloy of the barrel, changing the diameter of the barrel, or changing to 300 WSM would lead to totally different results. Interesting but doesn't really say anything unless you are trying to duplicate EXACTLY what they did.
I wrote "proposition", since it's anothers' idea. Nonetheless, what they variously did stand upon their own merits and is scientific, if not necessarily methodical. They shot in as controlled an environment as feasible, used proven accurizing methods and their own technical innovations. I will say they mentioned a few calibers but did not see that 21.75" either applied to 6 PPC or all. Perhaps I missed that.

I agree that infinite vagaries preclude a "one size fits all" barrel, though.

[Opus Dei]

When you say that you mean due to the barrel pulling the action to flex? What if you mounted the scope base with the rifle muzzle down? That would negate any droop induced by the weigth of the barrel.
I would think so; granted, that would take a massive length and weight to effect such stress. Maybe Gmac5 could elaborate on the flex he'd seen.

[MZ5]

Ive been shooting 1.25 bull barrels for ever. A good book to read is RIFLE ACCURACY FACTS BY VAUGHN.


I was going to recommend this book, too. Vaughn found, as I recall, essentially that chasing 'rigidity' was counterproductive due to the higher-frequency harmonics it set up. Rather, the preferable path would be extremely well-damped flexibility. He specifically suggested (as an example; he said it didn't work in practice without a whole lot more development) a super-thin barrel coated (damped) entirely in dead-soft lead.

Vaughn found that a bedding system that allowed the barrel/receiver to recoil nearly unimpeded for just a fraction of a second (basically until the bullet exited the bbl) dramatically reduced the effects of bbl & receiver moments.

[Leonardo63]

"Vaughn found that a bedding system that allowed the barrel/receiver to recoil nearly unimpeded for just a fraction of a second" That is an interesting observation, very interesting. So now to figure out the distance needed for free travel until the bullet has left the muzzle. I would expect it to be a small number. Has anyone done any work on an idea like this?

[Gmac5]

Too many variables,
1 will a large heavy barrel be more accurate with a rigid receiver? YES
2 how would a less than solid rec.influence accuracy . Everyone is still working on this one but stiff is better than flexing
3 are you a good enough shooter to notice any diff, ( not to be rude but most likely not ) usually what u believe to be better product will produce better results.i have assembled military mauser shoot 5 shot groups that consistantly shot .078 @100 yards.
4.a solid top steel mount 4 # 8 screws and pinned then trued would be all most of us need.
5 axis actions are very rigid
6 to test , mount rec and barrel to solid steel bench ,attach mag laser to top ,add 20# to end of barrel,mark laser mark on wall, remove weight note laser level .amount of change? Dont expect inches ,just maybe a few thou.
It doesnt matter what action u test with the amount of flex would change with receiver design

[Gmac5]

I meant to say add the 20# near the breach end ,adding at muzz will show barrel ( rod) flex

[Gmac5]

A great barrel a great trigger agreat bullet and great load and shooter in my 30+ years of research. Are much more important than rigid rec.but i have not yet finished that chapter
Gary

[Gmac5]

Dont forget however rigid ur rec is it is constant,the key to accuracy is eliminating variables.

[jonbearman]

I have a short action(mod10) and it has a 1.350 barrel on it(bull/mcgowen) and it shoots outstanding for me.Groups are always the same(small) so the rigid action deal isnt as big a deal as you would think in this case.