Magazine type choice for a .458 Winchester magnum build?

[thomae]

I am planning on building a .458 Win Mag and have a choice of actions.
I have both a staggered feed and a center feed long action receiver.

Are there some compelling reasons why one would be better (or worse) than the other?

Thanks for your thoughts and input.

[bootsmcguire]

Well, the SF does have a factory 458 Magazine box available (kinda tough to find though I am told), the CF does not. My 458 is built on a CF action and I ran it as a single shot until in my swaps I ended up with a Mag and follower out of a 300WM. My 458 will work as a repeater out of the 300 CF mag, but I load mine with 325gr FTX pointed ballistic tips and the Barnes TTSX ballistic tips. With those bullets it feeds fine, I have not loaded any of the 500-600gr RN or FP bullets to see if they will feed or not. I'd bet the RN will work but I am not going to hold my breath on the FP's.

[Baryngyl]

I can not give any info on the CF, but you can read about my SF 458 Win. Mag. problem.

http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,48057.0.html


Michael Grace

[thomae]

Michael,
Did you end up resolving your mag follower problem? How did it turn out?

I was looking at the different stagger feed mag bodies here (http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,11526.0.html).
Is the 458 mag actually narrower at the front than the 300/7mm mag? It looks that way in the photo, but I don't have one in hand to really compare.


Boots, thanks for your information. Perhaps I'll try a 300winmag magazine first. It looks like that route would be a little less expensive. The offical max length of the 458 and 300 mag are the same,

Ignorant question here: According to the specs on the magazine bodies found at Midwayusa, the feed rail width for Standard Magnums (.517") is actually narrower than the 30-06 (.538"). Does that make sense? The Magnums are wider than the -06.

Idly thinking aloud: It looks like with an ultramag body and an extended throat in the chamber, the longer heavier bullets could be loaded without taking up quite so much powder space. I think I'll let that go for now. The standard 458 loading will likely knock me around enough and I don't have any plans to hunt elephants or angry dangerous game in the near future. (I predict this last paragraph will probably generate a bunch of "Go with a 458 Lott" comments ;) )

[bootsmcguire]

What types and weights of bullets are you planning on trying? I have been shooting the 325-350gr range stuff intended for the 45-70. Been putting them over RL7 and I am guessing they are running at about 2250-2350 FPS range. I have a brake on mine and it only thumps about as bad as a 30-06. I have only been looking at the 400gr and smaller bullets just because here in the midwest a 325gr pill at 2200FPR should put down Deer and such with a vengeance. I guess I should load up a couple of 600gr solids in case I want to take down a runaway Ford or something.

I wouldn't worry to much about the throat being too short. Mine is an ER Shaw/A&B also and it has a very very generous throat, and remember with the Ultra Magazine you will have a bit of machine work to do to the action unless you have a RUM type action.

As far as the Lott goes, I'd rather have the 458WM unless you are going to hunt Elephants, Cape Buff., and the like. Here in the states the 458WM is more than enough and has cheaper brass and fits most actions and is plenty capable on its own of the above mentioned DG animals.

[thomae]

What types and weights of bullets are you planning on trying? I have been shooting the 325-350gr range stuff intended for the 45-70. Been putting them over RL7 and I am guessing they are running at about 2250-2350 FPS range. I have a brake on mine and it only thumps about as bad as a 30-06. I have only been looking at the 400gr and smaller bullets just because here in the midwest a 325gr pill at 2200FPR should put down Deer and such with a vengeance. I guess I should load up a couple of 600gr solids in case I want to take down a runaway Ford or something.
Boots, I'll likely be doing something similar to what you are doing. Loading down for deer, etc. Perhaps something a little bigger if I go after bigger game. Knowing me, i'll probably try some 500 grain pills and stout loads just for the heck of it, and to say I did it.

I wouldn't worry to much about the throat being too short. Mine is an ER Shaw/A&B also and it has a very very generous throat, and remember with the Ultra Magazine you will have a bit of machine work to do to the action unless you have a RUM type action. You are absolutely correct. As I said, I was simply musing on paper. Since I am not going to consider this a true dangerous Game Rifle, it will be what it is. Most of the issues with the 458 Win Mag I have read about on various forums have to do with people complaining about how the big long bullets take up powder room, leaving not enough powder to generate the higher velocities they want. The lead free bullets such as Barnes and the like are the usual suspects since they have to be longer to be the same weight. I'm simply not going to worry about it. It will still be more powerful at its useful ranges than anything else I own.

As far as the Lott goes, I'd rather have the 458WM unless you are going to hunt Elephants, Cape Buff., and the like. Here in the states the 458WM is more than enough and has cheaper brass and fits most actions and is plenty capable on its own of the above mentioned DG animals. I might consider the Lott if I were really going on an African dangerous game hunt, or planning to visit the Pittsburgh or Philly zoo (Would they be suspicious if I showed up in a Pith helmet with a rifle slung over my shoulder? ;)) . But since I'm not, I think the 458 Mag will do for me here in North America.


Please don't look for any pictures of this completed rifle or targets for a while. I still have a lot of work to do. I need to get myself the magnum bolt parts I need and figure out what kind of action and magazine I will use. I have a lead on some once fired brass, but will need dies and bullets.

Other projects need to get done as well:
I also have to finish a 35 Whelen and 6.5-55 build.
I am working on building an annealer.
I am also working on trying to pillar and bed MkII.
I need to finish building some furniture projects for my wife.
I also have to look after my wife and kids, and continue progressing on a honeydo list longer than Santa's list. This morning I spent a lot of time snaking out my household waste plumbing system and now I have to finish that project by cleaning out the remains of the "water" (yes, that's a euphemism for what it really is :-\) that backed up into my workshop.
I am in the middle of repairing an antique English railway clock so that it works (I'm not a clockmaker, but have a local clockmaker who has been assisting and guiding me through the project.)
Two kids have two different music concerts tonight, music and dance lessons tomorrow afternoon/evening.
Oh, and I need to change the oil in the Suburban.
By the way, it rained all day yesterday so now the grass needs to be cut.

So, why am I spending time on this forum? ::)

I'm not complaining, mind you. Life is good. It beats the alternative.

[bootsmcguire]

Sounds like you have got a good handle on it. I know all about those honey-do lists, and sounds like you've got a large one hanging over your head.

Enjoy your 458 when you get time to get 'er done, I will say that it'll be a great conversation starter at the range :D.

[ellobo]

Tomea, I have a go gage for the .35 whelen you are welcome to borrow when your ready. Just let me know when and where.
A .30-06 guage will work as well if you have one.
El Lobo

[thomae]

Ellobo: Thanks for your kind offer. I happen to have a -06 family go/nogo gauge set, so I'm ok in that department.
Props to you for your generosity!

I am still planning to eventually buy or borrow a 6.5x55 swede or 458 Win Mag gauge set, if you know of any around.

[Baryngyl]

Michael,
Did you end up resolving your mag follower problem? How did it turn out?

I was looking at the different stagger feed mag bodies here (http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,11526.0.html).
Is the 458 mag actually narrower at the front than the 300/7mm mag? It looks that way in the photo, but I don't have one in hand to really compare.



Yes it is narrower at the front, I would measure it for you except I just moved and everything is still in storage right now.

The follower that I got from midway was to wide at the front, I was told in the thread I posted above by BradB that it was the wrong one, I just filed it to make it fit, it looks like it will work but I need to test it out once I get all settled in and get it out of storage.



I am still planning to eventually buy or borrow a 6.5x55 swede or 458 Win Mag gauge set, if you know of any around.

The gauge set for the 458 Win. Mag is the same gauge set that is used for all the belted magnums.


Michael Grace

[thomae]

The gauge set for the 458 Win. Mag is the same gauge set that is used for all the belted magnums.
Michael Grace


Thanks for all your info. As soon as I read what you wrote above, I had one of those " ::) Duh!" moments because somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that they were the same because they headspace off the belt.

Thanks for reminding me! :D.

Apparently "used to know that" isn't good enough anymore because my forgetter is getting better and better each day.

[tammons]

I set up a 458 WM on an older SF CF magnum action.
It came with a 300 WM magazine and that worked after a bit of fiddling
with the lips. That said I would imagine there are some out there that would not work.
Think I just got lucky.

If you are not shooting at Godzilla and you reload and still want a sledgehammer bullet
you might want to try out the 458 300 gr TTSX bullet designed for the 458 Socom.
A bit less recoil especially if you download. Full tilt the recoil was
snappy and still up there.

The petals might shear off at 458 WM speeds, but that might be a benefit
depending on what you are shooting.

I would strongly suggest getting a Duramax Stock.
Helps tone down the rediculous recoil especially if your rifle is light.

RL7 is pretty much the powder, or at least one of the good ones for pretty much all bullet weights.

I had a 21" bbl

300 ttsx over 68 gr makes a good reduced load chrono at around 2300 FPS
2200-2300 in my rifle was pretty easy to shoot and the recoil was comfortable compared to the full tilt loads below
with even this bullet.

72 gr is as high as I got and that chrono'd at 2475 FPS
Primer and brass was fine with more room to go, but that was overkill so I stopped.
Recoil was very snappy.

Also tested some 600 gr barnes solids. 67 gr got me to 1875 FPS with flattened primers
and you could not shoot it off the bench. Well not more than 2 shots anyway.
Standing was okay though.
It was a handfull.
Recoil was not as snappy as the full tilt 300 grainer, but it was still rediculous and harsh.
Hunting standing I dont think you would notice it much.
Seems like I figured it was 60# or something like that.
35-40# is okay for me with a good stock, but over that gets very uncomfortable on a bench.

Funny go shoot some full tilt 500-600 gr loads then pick up a 30-06 and it feels like a pellet gun - LOL.

Probably also need some Burris extreme rings or something like that.

My barrel had an extremely long freebore and dumped the pressure and FPS a lot.
If you dont have a barrel with a huge freebore the loads above are probably
over pressured.

My gun weighed about 9-10#.