ML 10 - II

[Rick Teal]

I just bought a used ML10 at a gun show. I have a few questions.

I'm in Canada, and gun parts are often difficult to acquire.

I'd like to discover a source of vent liners, and the type of optical sight bases for this rifle.

The Savage web site seems silent on any technical aspects of this gun, but I'm curious if there have been any powders other than IMR SR4759, AA XMP-5744 and VV N110 that have been approved for this rifle (I'm not crazy enough to experiment, and do have all three of these powders).

I couldn't find the anti-seize product mentioned in the manual, but I was able to get a different one. Is the specific product a critical requirement?

Thanks!

[jpdown]

Go to www.randywakeman.com. He sells aftermarket vent liners, socket head breach plugs and has a number of informative articles on fine tuning the Savage ML, smokeless powder options and ML bullet selection. VV N120 at 58 gr and the 300gr Barnes Original bullet is the most consistently accurate load for my rifle. BlackHorn 209 powder is a good clean black powder subtitute if you cannot use smokeless powders. Any of the bases listed for use on a Savage SA rifle will work on the Savage 10ML. I use the Burris Extreme Tactical bases and Signature Zee rings (with inserts) because of the mounting flexibility needed with today's short tubed ultrlight/compact/ML scopes. A 1-piece Weaver style base is another option for the same reasons, but with my big fingers, I need all the room I can when placing and removing the 209 primers. A good anti-seize product is a must. Go with what you can find local.

[Rick Teal]

I checked out his site - quite a lot of info there!

I only know him from his dis-information campaign against everyone else's M/Ls. I've added him to my favourites.

When you say "SA bases" does that mean "short action"?

I probably only need a front base, since I'm planning to put a reflex sight on it, and want to keep lots of room open for capping and de-capping.

[jpdown]

Yes, SA = Short Action.

[Rick Teal]

I took the gun to the range today, and something strange happened.

When I bought the gun, containers of 5744 and VVN110 came with it, and I already had some 4759 on hand that's probably 20 years old.

I read that regular 209 primers are recommended over those made for M/Ls. Being in Canada, and in the off-season, no one seemed to have any 209 primers, but I finally found some made by Cheddite - a French company.

I prepared several powder charges for each type.

My first two shots using 5744 wouldn't ignite. On a third charge I switched to M/L primers, and it still wouldn't ignite.

I switched to 4759, and all 6 loads worked perfectly with the Cheddite primers.

When I switched to the N110, and the first two charges ignited, but the third failed to fire. I gave up. The flash hole was always open when I checked.

I've been handloading for 45 years, and never had a powder problem before - even with old powders.

Any ideas? Is this a powder, primer or gun problem?

[jpdown]

Only time that has happened to me is when the bullet and sabot combination are too loose for the bore. You don't get enough back pressure to make the powder go boom. It just burns. What bullet and sabot are you using? ML primers are for black powder, not smokeless powder. I read they don't burn hot enough for reliable ignition with smokeless powders. Since the rifle is used, I assume you checked, cleaned/changed the vent liner and drilled the carbon out of the breech plug before you got started?

[sniper15545]

jpdown is right sometimes the sabots are old even if there new on the shelf. They must be tight smokeless powder will not work unless its under pressure. I use the black sabots. I also opened up my flash hole a few thousands of an inch. I have been shoting the ML II for at least 6 years and my dad and several buddies of mine have been using them from alot of years and I can't tell you the last time we had a miss fire. As a matter of fact mine set all spring and summer last year loaded from the season prior and went off with no problems. Theres alot to learn just be patient and consistent when seating the bullet every time and you will get there ;)

[Rick Teal]

I checked and everything seemed to be clean and open, but I plan to go over it again.

The pressure issue may be the problem. I'm using the SSTs as recommended in the manual, and they seemed to go down the barrel really easy - right from the muzzle downward. I believe I have some Hornadys with black sabots, so I'll try them to see if I get a tighter fit.

[sniper15545]

You need to use the black MMP sabots.

[Monkeymaster]

First off I recommend STEEL rings and BASES.
My groups shrank from 21/2" at 100 yds to 1" after I went with STEEL.
Then,I suggest using .458 300 grain bullets that are for the 45-70, and use the orange 50 x 458 mmp sabots or try harvestor crushed rib HIGH PRESSURE SABOTS for 45 cal bullet and 50 cal rifle.
I have used Sierra 300 grn hp.
Hornady 300 grain hp.
Remington 300 grain hp.
I have used both of the above sabots with 5744 and win 209 primer.
All shoot 1" at 100 yds.
However, the best 200 yard groups in MY gun come from the 300 grain Remingtons and the Harvestor High Pressure Sabots, honest 2" groups at 200 yards.
Every rifle has its own favorite.
You could sell what your MLII does not like on here to recoup some funds.
I have a "T" handle range rod, to get a good tight packing if you will when loading.
Good luck.

[cfvickers]

I had this problem, don't know the answer, but with 4759 I get great groups so no reason to complain.

[bythebook]

I have tried IMR 4759, RL-7, IMR 4227 and 4759 was the most accurate in mine and a couple of others. I also tried 300 gr. bullets but did not like the recoil ( due to an old shoulder surgery ) so went back to 250.

[savman]

You definitely need a tight fitting sabot for ignition. Around 30-40 lbs ramrod pressure. You can use a bathroom scale to get an idea of what that would be. Also Federal 209A or Win 209 primers are the primer of choice

[jkruger]

go to Dougsmessageboard all info you will ever need for every aspect of the 10-mlII