6.8 SPC on a Savage platform??

[bluealtered]

I see that there are barrels out there so now the question is the bolt head, mikie have you made any progress on that, or perhaps some one has has some other ideas? blue

[Gary paugh]

I already have two 6.8spc's just thought a bolt gun would be fun to play with.
The way this is going i may just pick up a .223 and then look into a bolt head and barrel later.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

The bolt head is "in the works". Got dies coming as well as bullets. Just got 100 pieces of SSA brass. Still thinking about a barrel. My plan is to have a barrel chambered with a short throat so I can start off with 90s and as the throat gets longer I can go to the heavier bullets. I do the same with my BR barrels. Can't shoot 50s if you can jam to the lands.
As far as chambers, from what I've seen (and I could be wrong) the SPC II has a longer throat and that wouldn't be good for what I had planned.
SAMMI is SAMMI. Just shorten the throat and you can jam your bullets. On a AR platform. the chamber might make a big difference as far as pressure is involved. No use having a barrel chambered with a reamer if it's not what "you" want. Kinda like buying a new car. If it's not the color you wanted, it will never be what you had in mind. Build it to "your" specs, that way you can't blame anybody buy yourself. No hurry on this end. Got everything coming. I'll load a dummy round and have the throat cut to that. All in good time. ;)

And Gary, I sent Fred a PM and he got back to me pretty fast. That's when he mentioned the left hand bolt head being on the shelf. With Lisa being under the weather for a while, my guess is that things in the email department might have got backed up a bit. Good folks to deal with. Just order what you want and it will get done. I told Fred to make a right hand bolt head for the 6.8 and let me know when it was done. Like I said, no hurry. ;D

[handirifle]

NorCal,
Since you already have two, you most likely know, but the pressures of some 6.8 loadings vary widely. and the higher ones are based on the SPC II chamber, with the .10 leade to it. SAAMI specs specify a .050 leade.

The platform wouldn't matter as much as the chamber. You could start off with the SAAMI specs and if you run into high pressure signs then ream it to the new specs.

Another change with the SPC II specs are a 1-11 or 1-12 twist, with either a 3 or 4 groove rifling. These also keep the pressure down and are a main source of achieving the velocity potential of the little 6.8. The 1-10 twist will overpressure long before getting to the newer, higher published velocities. You would be wasting your money, in my opinion, to get a 1-10 twist and shorter chamber, since I have not read of anyone's accuracy suffering from the long leade.

[Gary paugh]

Well i just ordered a left hand bolt face next step is to find a rifle to build from.

Gary

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Seems like the SAMMI reamers for the 6.8 have a long throat and the 6.8 SPC II is the longest. My thinking is to go with a "short throat" so I can jam the bullets like I do in my BR rounds but that's just from what I've been use to. The 6.8 might take a jump and have no problems so I'am still up in the air as far as to how to get the chamber cut. On the AR platform the longer throat seems to work best as far as keeping the pressure down but how will the long or short throat differ in a bolt gun? That's where I am right now.
Should see dies, shell holders and bullets some time this week. Load a couple of dummy rounds and think on it.
And it looks like there's not too many 6.8 bolt guns out there so there's not much info (been there,done that) to go by. Lots of AR stuff but in a bolt, few and far between.
I guess the only way would be to get a chamber cut to a short throat, try it and see how it works then lengthen the throat if needed??? And it will be a "one time cut" so it wouldn't be worth investing in my own reamer. I'll keep looking and rereading. ;) And no use getting in a hurry. It'll happen when it happens. I'll keep you posted as to how things are going, Mike.

[tammons]

I would have a DMR chamber cut and a 3 or 4 groove twist 1:11 barrel min or better yet a 12 or 13.
I am almost certain a 13 twist will stabilize a 130 gr bullet. If you wanted to shoot subsonic heavy bullets you might want a faster twist.

Also I personally would not go with a short throat especially if you ever want to shoot 110gr or 130 gr bullets.
If you are going to only run 90 gr TNTs or 85 gr TSX bullets you might be okay but a SPC II or DMR chamber would allow you to run hotter loads.

Also the 110 gr and 130 gr bullets are long and take up too much powder space in the cartridge.
I also would not jam the bullets without carefully testing loads.

If you do wnat to jam 110 or 130 gr bullets, even with a long throat that would be no problem.
They are long bullets compared the the case length. The 110gr tipped TSX is so long when you load them to 2.25"
it looks like about 1/3 of the bullet is out of the case. The ogive is definately inside the neck. Smae with the 110 gr accubond I think.

Everybody that relaods this round is running on the ragged edge or beyond of max pressure.
A lot of people are running at around 60k which is about 5k over max.

All that said, I ran very hot max loads in my 6.8 AR, 11 twist spc II chamber of 110 gr tipped TSX over 29.5gr of 10X which is a case full of powder and very compressed. Very hot load probably running close to 60k.
Sure death to Hogs. Its a real sledge hammer.

I would get occasional swipe marks, but roughly 1 out of 2 cases was toast.
Never broke any parts or any other problems other than trashed brass.

I ended up downloading a bit, mostly because my dad shoots a 10 twist spc I chamber mini and I did not want to break parts or cause problems on his gun if we got our handloads mixed up.

110tipped TSX over 29 gr run fine through his rifle so now I just load 110 pro hunters and 110 gr tipped TSX bullets over 29gr of 10X and call it good.

When the 100 gr tipped TSX comes out, I will probably switch over to that bullet only.

I guess what I am saying is in the end is if you download a little or shoot lighter bullets IMO then the chamber does not matter as much. I know you will not jam any bullet I have used in a spc I chamber running 2.25" COL.

If you want to run over max loads like a lot of the guys on the 6.8 spc forum you should get a dmr 13 twist 3 groove.
A 20" barrel will wring out almost all of the FPs that you can get.

If you get a SPC I chamber and dont like it you can always have it reamed to a Spc II or DMR. You could also have it throated, later if you wanted to shoot a longer COL just make sure you get the twist you want.

Most of the guys loading the 110 tipped TSX at max were running 2.3" COL in a special mag in a SPC II.
Cant remember who made the mag though but even that was not jammed. I never tried to find the lands on my dads mini or my AR, but I think that would be good to know in your case.

Pops at 88YO loves his 6.8 mini and got 2 deer this year already.







Seems like the SAMMI reamers for the 6.8 have a long throat and the 6.8 SPC II is the longest. My thinking is to go with a "short throat" so I can jam the bullets like I do in my BR rounds but that's just from what I've been use to. The 6.8 might take a jump and have no problems so I'am still up in the air as far as to how to get the chamber cut. On the AR platform the longer throat seems to work best as far as keeping the pressure down but how will the long or short throat differ in a bolt gun? That's where I am right now.
Should see dies, shell holders and bullets some time this week. Load a couple of dummy rounds and think on it.
And it looks like there's not too many 6.8 bolt guns out there so there's not much info (been there,done that) to go by. Lots of AR stuff but in a bolt, few and far between.
I guess the only way would be to get a chamber cut to a short throat, try it and see how it works then lengthen the throat if needed??? And it will be a "one time cut" so it wouldn't be worth investing in my own reamer. I'll keep looking and rerading. ;) And no use getting in a hurry. It'll happen when it happens. I'll keep you posted as to how things are going, Mike.

[handirifle]

You're gettin some good feedback on this one. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.

I'm sittin here wondering what a 243 case, necked up to 6.8 (ie. 270/308 or 270-08), would produce? Since the 243 beats the 6.8 by only a 100 or 150fps with the 85gr bullets, going to a larger base bullet (6mm to 6.8mm) ought to net another 100 to 150 more. In other words it should push the 85gr 6.8 TSX to just near 3400fps. Maybe better.

I imagine with the 100's or 110's a better gain would show in at about 3100fps.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

I had a talk with PT&G about reamers today but they went in a different direction.
They talked 22/6.8 but I want the 6.8 SPC in it's natural form. Not necked down to something else. Sounds like a real killer as far as a varmint round buy not my choice. (at least not right now ;))
Everybody talks 6.8 in a AR but not much bolt gun info. I want to see for myself and compare recoil to the .223 and .308 and accuracy.
From what I've heard, the 6.8 SPC SAMMI might be in line with the bullets I'am planning on working with. I'll know more when I get my dies and bullets, load a few dummy rounds and can get some actual measurements.

[tammons]

There is a guy here that just built a 270-08. It should be a good round. A lot of good hunting bullets in that caliber.

As far as a 85 gr out of a 270-08, I ran it through QL and you should get about 3300-3400 out of it with a 20" barrel depending ont the twist. A slow twist would be better. A fast twist will show pressure early. That said I got 3100-3150 or so out of the 6.8 spc with a 20" barrel. Its a very efficient cartridge. Not that much difference in killing power really.

A better combo IMO would be the 110 tipped TSX in the 270-08. Super hard hitting bullet.
You should be able to get 3000-3100 with of that bullet. That said I am getting 3150 out of my 308
with 130 gr tipped TSX bullets.

In straght 270 wincheter fed prem ammo with that bullet is pushing 3400 fps.

I just loaded up some 270 weatherby shells with some left over barnes 85 gr bullets to try out on hogs.

Best I could get out of it was 3750 fps over a ton of powder. thought I could get 3800 +, but I dont want to burn up a barrel chasing 100 fps. 3 shots leaves you with a very hot barrel as-is.
Have yet to try it out on hogs though.





You're gettin some good feedback on this one. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.

I'm sittin here wondering what a 243 case, necked up to 6.8 (ie. 270/308 or 270-08), would produce? Since the 243 beats the 6.8 by only a 100 or 150fps with the 85gr bullets, going to a larger base bullet (6mm to 6.8mm) ought to net another 100 to 150 more. In other words it should push the 85gr 6.8 TSX to just near 3400fps. Maybe better.

I imagine with the 100's or 110's a better gain would show in at about 3100fps.

[tammons]

Just keep in mind, IMO I think the 6.8 spc is a superb hunting round, but if I was going to built a target rifle off of a 2.25 col cartridge I would build a 22ppc, 6ppc or 6.5 grendel (really a 6.5 PPC) or one of the BR cartridges like the 6mmBR would be even better.

Forget PTG and call Pacific tool. They probably have a 6.8 reamer of any sort chamber on the shelf.
I forget the owners name but a very nice guy.

As far as why nobody talks about the 6.8 in bolt guns, is probably because there are not that many around.
I remember being in a gun shop 2 years ago where 2 guys were drooling over a remington in 6.8. It should be more popular, but I think its mostly because its new, an AR cartridge and people are not familiar with it and there are so many other rounds that will do what it does although with more recoil. The word is getting out though, especially as a good hog cartridge.

As far as accuracy, with a good barrel, bullet and right load it will be as accurate as anything else.
Match bullets are scarce in 6.8 but that might be changing.

Recoil is light.
I think its a good bit lighter than a 243, but that was in an 6.8 automatic.
IMO its the hardest hitting low recoil cartridge around.
Like I said above, my dad at 88YO loves his 6.8 mini. No recoil pad on that gun.
I put him behind a 22-250 savage and he thought the recoil was too harsh.
He has had shoulder operations on both sholders so he needs a light
recoil rifle. He originally got a 223 savage, but when he tried out my 6.8 AR
he opted for a 6.8 and the 223 is gathering dust.

Personally I would at least go for a spc II chamber.
The only real difference is about .01 in freebore.
That small amount makes a big difference in pressure though.
Probably about 2k alone.
A DMR chamber with a 13 twist 3 groove should get you about 5k, or the ability to safely load up to around 60K as long as you use SSA brass.

Or just make sure you get the barrel twist right.

You can always ream it to an improved chamber later.
You might want to go here and get some opinions on chamber, barrel twist, freebore, jamming bullets etc.

http://68forums.com/forums/index.php



I had a talk with PT&G about reamers today but they went in a different direction.
They talked 22/6.8 but I want the 6.8 SPC in it's natural form. Not necked down to something else. Sounds like a real killer as far as a varmint round buy not my choice. (at least not right now ;))
Everybody talks 6.8 in a AR but not much bolt gun info. I want to see for myself and compare recoil to the .223 and .308 and accuracy.
From what I've heard, the 6.8 SPC SAMMI might be in line with the bullets I'am planning on working with. I'll know more when I get my dies and bullets, load a few dummy rounds and can get some actual measurements.

[BillPa]

"There is a guy here that just built a 270-08."

LOL...well not "Just" built, I've had it and the improved version for a few years. You might be thinking of BobT.

Ya know, I don't want to try to change one's direction, but a bolt gun in a small 27 bore the wildcat 270-308 is a more practical and much easier choice. For its original intended purpose I guess the SPC made sense, but to me not in a bolt gun.

The 270-08 uses the standard .473" bolt face, works through any action made for the 308 family of cartridges without any changes, many more choices in components and is still going when the SPC is out of breath. It will all but reach 270 Win performance with the same weight bullets burning on the average of 10-15 grains less powder in the process. In other words, you can load it down to the SPC performance or load it up to closely approximate 270 Win. ballistics within 100 FPS or so.

Making brass is a simple matter of simply running 243, 260, 7-08 or 308 brass in a 270-08 die, Win,Rem, Lapua or anything else. CH4D make dies and you can use the standard 308 family GO-NO GO gage.

I guess I may have considered a SPC if I already didn't have a 270-08 and its better brother the improved, but even today if I wanted a small 27 bore in a bolt gun it would still be my choice. Both my rifles are on Mod 70 carbine actions, 22" 12 twist barrels and pleasant to shoot even with full power loads. My one 9 year old grandson blasted 20 rounds out of the improved a few weeks ago and didn't blink an eye. His only complaint? Out of ammo!

Kiff's print
http://i39.tinypic.com/2q313ls.jpg

Now if I could only have some success convincing one rifle manufacturer in particular who's name starts with an "S" to standardize it as their own cartridge. All they need is a stupid reamer and submit the specs, they have or make everything else already. People would be standing three deep wanting rifles in the new latest and greatest. ;D

Bill

[Nor Cal Mikie]

tammons: Just in case you didn't know for sure, PT&G and Pacific Tool are one in the same.
The 270-08 sounds like a good round but, it's "not" a 6.8 SPC. ;)
I've got the BR rounds to play with but I want to see what I can do with the 6.8 SPC in it's nautral form. No shoulder angle change, no necked down or up to something else, just the straight 6.8 SPC. And it'll be on a Savage action. ;D
Got dies and bullets today. Need to send out a couple of cases and have them "modified" by Hornady so I can get the "actual" chamber length.
Need a shell holder for my Lee Auto Prime that should be here before the end of the week. Dummy rounds will help me decide what chamber I want cut then it's load them up and go shoot something. ;)

[10fp]

just remember the reason the spc2 chamber was created is to fix the problems from pressure in the original design, they had alot of early pressure spikes and the extra lead that the spc2 chamber has alleviates this problem. if you plan to reload for it and are going to try for more performance then you really should stay away from sammi spec. if your just going to shoot the lower pressure stuff from remington and horniday ok, butif you want to run the ssa combat loaded ammo its potentally going to be bad news in the standard sammi chamber.


just my .02
whatever you do have fun and be safe.

[tammons]

I agree with 10FP. Just get a spc II chamber.

.01" longer freebore will make zero difference in accuracy, but will allow you to shoot SSA combat and hot hand loads. Besides its a bolt gun without a 2.25" col limit so you can hang the bullets out longer if you want.

I had great results with 110gr tipped TSX hot handloads on hogs.
Always 1 shot kills.

That said I ran out of TSX ammo while I was tring to get my dads mini to shoot right,
so I bought a couple of boxes of 6.8 remi ammo until I could order more bullets and brass.

I ran into a 125# pig on our neighbors land and had to shoot that damn thing about 5-6 times before it finally dropped.

Billpa makes a lot of sense too, but if you want a 6.8 spc you want a 6.8 spc. Loaded with barnes or accubond bulets it will down anything a 270-08 will out to about 350 yards.

[handirifle]

This is a good thread. I have thought as well, about a bolt gun in the 6.8 and or the 270-08. I ran some ballistics on the 270-08 vs the 6.8 and I'd say the 6.8 will hold it's own to 250yds, but definately not 350. It just doesn't retain the speed necessary for reliable bullet expansion. The 85gr requires 2100fps and the 110 requires 1900.

The 6.8 seems like it would be a great beginners round in that it provides excellent power, especially in the 200yd and closer category, at ranges the beginners should be shooting anyway. Not saying it should be limited to them at all.

I was personally suprised at close the SPC II chambering gets to the 243 ballistics, with the 85 and 100gr loads. Pretty amazing really.

When you step up to the 270-08 the 6.8 will fall behind very fast, espoecially when you go up past the 110gr bullets. Remember there are heavier bullets out there, all the way to 160gr +. The best overall performance would come, I think, from a 130-140gr bullet in the 270-08 version. Something I don't think the 6.8 can even load, at least not at AR length restrictions. But it, like many of it's kind, will fall back faster with heavier bullets.

Not to digress, but the 6.8 will and is a great light for caliber cartridge. In a bolt gun I bet it is much like shooting a 223 but with a lot more power.

[tammons]

The tipped bullets open faster than the non tipped variety.

The only thing you will find on the barnes site is the tip buys you another 100 yards over a non tipped bullet. The general concensus is the tipped variety needs about 1700 fps to open reliably, but it not exact science.

That said if you hit a bone no matter what speed it will start to open, and it opens faster on its trip through the body cavity than the non tipped variety.

The tipped bullets are so much better, I actually expect them to phase out the non tipped barnes bullets.
I dont even use the non tipped version if the tipped is available.

With a 20" barrel and a hot load which would work in a dmr 13 twist 3 groove with no problem I was getting about 2750 + out of the 110 gr TTSX over 29.5 of 10X, but that is a really hot load in my spcII 11 twist.
Actually with a DMR chamber and 3 groove 13 twist you could probably hit 2800 if you played around with more powders.
You can definately hit 2800+ with the 110 gr accubond since its a shorter bullet.
At any rate 2750 FPS gets you to 450 yards at 1780 fps.

I forget the guys name over on arfcom, but he killed a 5x elk at 380 yards with a 6.8 spc and a 110 gr accubond. I think he was running at about 2830 + but cant really remember. At any rate he figured he was getting 1000 fpe at 380 yards.
Got full penetration and found the bullet under the skin on the other side.

There are quite a few people using 130 gr bullets at about 2400-2500 but its not best suited for the 6.8.
I never even shot any except for some Tubbs FF bullets.
That said the tipped 110 gr barnes bullet is slightly longer than a 130 gr nosler partition bullet so it takes a lot of case space too. Most all of the 6.8 SPC hot loads are very compressed loads.

It is a good beginners gun, for sure. Its a hard hitting round with very little recoil, and if that is what you are after its a perfect fit for hunting.

There are always better calibers, especially for hog, elk, bear etc, but all with more recoil.




This is a good thread. I have thought as well, about a bolt gun in the 6.8 and or the 270-08. I ran some ballistics on the 270-08 vs the 6.8 and I'd say the 6.8 will hold it's own to 250yds, but definately not 350. It just doesn't retain the speed necessary for reliable bullet expansion. The 85gr requires 2100fps and the 110 requires 1900.

The 6.8 seems like it would be a great beginners round in that it provides excellent power, especially in the 200yd and closer category, at ranges the beginners should be shooting anyway. Not saying it should be limited to them at all.

I was personally suprised at close the SPC II chambering gets to the 243 ballistics, with the 85 and 100gr loads. Pretty amazing really.

When you step up to the 270-08 the 6.8 will fall behind very fast, espoecially when you go up past the 110gr bullets. Remember there are heavier bullets out there, all the way to 160gr +. The best overall performance would come, I think, from a 130-140gr bullet in the 270-08 version. Something I don't think the 6.8 can even load, at least not at AR length restrictions. But it, like many of it's kind, will fall back faster with heavier bullets.

Not to digress, but the 6.8 will and is a great light for caliber cartridge. In a bolt gun I bet it is much like shooting a 223 but with a lot more power.

[MAGNUS]

I have been looking at the 6.8 and now the 270-308.....

But the 270 AI SAVAGE is the round i would personaly go for here, it almost matches the 270 win performance.

It also seems like a better alternative for a bolt gun.

[tammons]

not just go with a 270 WSM ??

[MAGNUS]

Sure,

but the .270 AI savage is a smaller case and seeing as the 6.8 is also small and he is looking for a bolt gun platform it seemed more suitable.

And i personaly love the 250 AI and 270 AI ;)