AXIS: Stainless vs Blue???

[762X51]

Are the stainless Axis' proving to be as accurate as the blued ones? Another poster asked this a while back but there really weren't any good head to head comparisons and the post kind of went sideways without a real answer. Does anybody out there own both a blue and a stainless Axis and if so, what are your observations and comments regarding the two different materials concerning accuracy? Even if you don't own both but just own a stainless Axis, what are your results regarding accuracy??? Does no one here own a stainless Axis?? If the answer isn't on this board I can't imagine where else to look. I can't find a review of a stainless Axis to save my life. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

[yooper14]

Even if someone has two Axis rifles with one stainless and one blue, what they could tell you about them wouldn't be very informative about the accuracy of stainless rifles as a category. The differences in any two rifles doesn't say much. Stainless firearms have been around for a long time, and they tend to be about as accurate as their blue counterparts.

[762X51]

Even if someone has two Axis rifles with one stainless and one blue, what they could tell you about them wouldn't be very informative about the accuracy of stainless rifles as a category.

That's certainly true, but if enough people tell me their experiences it surely would be! If 10 people responded then that would help establish a trend. 20 would be better. 1000 better still. Honestly, I was really hoping for a broader statistical database than one response! Maybe we could establish a pattern; for instance several people respond that they have had great luck with their blued guns but have only experienced so-so accuracy with their stainless guns. Or, 10 people reply that they are getting 1/2" groups from their blued guns while 12 different people respond that their stainless guns are only giving 2" groups. And yes, I realize there are other variables like caliber, geographic location, the ability of the shooter, the moon phase, weather, tidal flow, wind, optics, etc., etc., etc.. Another way to ask the question would be; As a whole, blued Axis rifles are considered to possess better than average accuracy, and have a record supporting this claim. Do the stainless guns, from real world experience, exhibit these same attributes?


The differences in any two rifles doesn't say much.

Yep. See above. Hoping to see a trend. May not be enough of them out there to do that yet. Apparently not.


Stainless firearms have been around for a long time, and they tend to be about as accurate as their blue counterparts.

Generally, perhaps, but I'm specifically interested in the facts as they apply to the Axis. Since stainless steel is a different material and has different characteristics while machining, it's only reasonable to assume the finished products may perform differently within the same manufacturer's product line. See the post by 180pilot regarding his stainless Axis that looks like it was rifled with a hatchet.

[progunner]

I bought 2 stainless Axis in .223

One for my brothers birthday , and one for myself .

I sighted in for the first time Saturday , they come factory boresighted ,

but that will get you on paper ,to make sighting in a little easier.

I put up a target at 50yds .

I was using Factory winchester white box

the first round was 4 inches right and one inch high .

second round went through the Same Hole !

A few clicks left and a couple down it was on the money .

I shot a round in the white part of the target to use as a bulls eye

the black on the target was too big and would allow you to wander with the Cross hairs .

It proceeded to put 3 rds through the same hole ! , I used the eagle on the NRA logo as Target

it put 3 rds through that , so it was not a fluke ! This is serious accuracy I need to take it to 100yds and 200yds

for more testing , I would not be surprised if it shot .5 MOA .

My brothers one was equally accurate .

[762X51]

Thanks progunner, that's the kind of first hand reports I'm looking for. Anybody else?

[farmer44mag]

Now that i have a better shooting rest- a Stoney Point bench bag- I have now been able to get 7/8" groups out of my stainless .30-06 at 100yds.

My blued .223 can do .5" groups at 100yds with a poor rest- so i think when i shoot it with this new rest i will be shooting one-holers with it. I think the .30-06 is capable of the same- i just can't hold against the recoil.

Will post range report later- maybe up by time you read this O.P.

[dboyers]

I bought my son an Axis .223 stainless with a camo stock just after Christmas (a Cabela's only edition). We've been getting consistent groups under an inch at 100 yards with factory ammo. He was shooting 1 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards from a prone position using a bipod (he's 12 yrs old). I have some hand loads made up for it for using bullets that range from 55 to 69 grains and IMR 4198 powder. Now if I can just get the weather to cooperate so we can test them out we may be able to give an update. I expect good things.

[geargrinder]

I think what yooper was trying to point out is that your question is similar to- Are red Corvettes faster than yellow Corvettes?

They are all made the same way and the properties of the metals will not change the potential for accuracy.

[762X51]

I think what yooper was trying to point out is that your question is similar to- Are red Corvettes faster than yellow Corvettes?

They are all made the same way and the properties of the metals will not change the potential for accuracy.


The difference between a yellow Corvette and a red Corvette is PURELY and ONLY cosmetic. The difference between a stainless alloy and a carbon steel alloy are MUCH MORE than cosmetic. They may in fact be "made the same way", as you say, but if that's true then I'd suspect even MORE of a chance of a difference in accuracy due to the varying machining characteristics of the two metals. Stainless and carbon steel are usually machined at different feed rates and the ideal feed rate for rifling a carbon steel barrel will more than likely not be ideal for stainless, so if the same machinery and the same procedures are used on both materials then it'd be logical to expect different results and very possibly differing accuracy. The metals themselves may not solely hold potential for differing accuracy but the manufacturing techniques CERTAINLY do and could potentially lead to one rifle, blue or stainless, having a track record for greater accuracy versus the other, hence my question.

[geargrinder]

If that were true, and anyone could prove it, we wouldn't have two types of barrels.

They both have the same potential. Period.

[762X51]

If that were true, and anyone could prove it, we wouldn't have two types of barrels.

They both have the same potential. Period.



NO THEY DON'T. Period. You may think they do but that doesn't make it so.

[geargrinder]

Ok, Remington has been building stainless and chromoly barrels for decades.

There should be enough history and data- which one is more accurate?

[762X51]

Ok, Remington has been building stainless and chromoly barrels for decades.

There should be enough history and data- which one is more accurate?


I would suspect they are considered about comparable. If in fact Remington compensate for the machining differences in the two materials I'd logically expect comparable results. That however has NO bearing on my question regarding the accuracy differences between Savage Axis' comprised of the two metals. The potential of the two metals is well documented, real world results with regards to the Axis are not. Your opinion is that there will be no difference in guns made from the two different materials and that very well may be the case. I specifically asked for empirical data regarding the two different guns. Hopefully the results will show equally superior accuracy in either metal. How do your Axis rifles perform?

[geargrinder]

There has never been any empirical data that shows a conclusive accuracy difference between stainless/chromoly in any rifle.

Why do you think there will be in the Axis?

[thomae]

762x51: Can you accept that perhaps no one on this forum has the specific empirical data you seek?

[762X51]

762x51: Can you accept that perhaps no one on this forum has the specific empirical data you seek?




Certainly, without a doubt! Look back to the third post of this thread. I say there may not be enough of them out there to establish any pattern (if one exists). So yes I can accept that no one may have the data and even even addressed it early on. Thanks.

[762X51]

There has never been any empirical data that shows a conclusive accuracy difference between stainless/chromoly in any rifle.

Why do you think there will be in the Axis?




I don't THINK there will be, but I DON'T know there won't be either. I FULLY UNDERSTAND you believe WITH ALL YOUR HEART the rifles will be FULLY equal with regards to accuracy. As I said, that will likely be the case. I was simply just curious if anybody has noticed a trend regarding the rifles. Your opinion that there will be no difference has been duly noted and odds are the evidence will prove you right I was merely asking if anybody had noticed a difference and based on the few replies actually addressing the question it appears the answer is no. You still haven't told me how your Axis rifles shoot which would be helpful with regard to the original question.

[180pilot]

Data, Data???? The type of steel is of little matter, the quality of machining and quality control make for accuracy!

A factory barrel is a crap shoot,.. stainless or not. After market, what an expert says:

From: http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/details_of_accuracy.htm

"Barrel Steel

Ninety percent of Lilja's customers want stainless steel barrels. A good percentage of those are hunters who want the resistance to weather provided by stainless steel. Lilja uses 416 stainless. A stainless barrel has a longer and more accurate life than the standard 4140-type chrome/molybdenum steel barrel because stainless steel resists heat erosion in the throat better. "I also get a better final finish with stainless," Lilja said.

And then another expert, Gail McMillian, with another opinion:

"Contrary to genral impressions Stainless steel that is used in the
firearms is not more difficult but is much more machineable than
chromoly. The s/s used in barrel steel is stainless screw stock 416R made
to run on auto screw machines at high speed. The steel used in s/s
actions is 1704, a tougher steel that take more tool pressure but
machines nicely. Stainless doesn't have the tensile strength that a
chromoly like 4340 does. Due to the softness of barrel s/s which is 27
to 29 Rockwell C it will not last as long as 4140 and while it is
believed to withstand heat erosion better I have not found that to be
true. As a summery due the better machine ability, s/s barrels can be
made with closer dimensions and surface finishes. It will produce more
accurate barrels. The sole benefit of fluted barrels is that to some
people it looks neat. If you are lucky a fluted barrel will shoot as
well as or nearly as well as an unfluted barrel. And the gunsmith needs
the money."

Gale McMillan