problem....hang fires

[zap]

I took my "new to me", 6.5x47 lapua to test some more loads today. I purchased it used from a local fella. It had around 400 rounds through it when I bought it, and I have less than 100 through it since I have had it.

I shot a 4 shot group with 36 gr of N135. Not a good group and a little on the hot side, sticky bolt lift .

Next I was going to try some N550. I am hearing great things with this powder for the 6.5x47.
The first shot with this load I heard a noticable delay. I could hear the firing pin hit the primer, then it fired !
I took the next shot and it did not even fire. I ejected it to look at it , and noticed that the pin did hit the primer, but a little on the light side. I believe this initial load was 35 gr of N550.
The next load of N550 was 35.5, then 36.0 last. I got hang fires with all but maybe two out of 12 rounds. Some had noticably longer hang fires than others.
Same lot of primers I have been using since I have owned the rifle. Only new thing is the N550, and I can't immagine a problem with the powder, especially this brand.

Could that hot load of N135 that I shot before the N550 have caused some kind of problem with the firing pin or some other part ? ??? coincidence ???

I am open to any suggestions.

[ellobo]

Some quick things to check are firing pin protrusion, and the bolt assy screw at the rear of the bolt for tightness. The hot load may have slammed the firing pin back hard. If you know how, disassemble the bolt and check for something in the interior of the bolt like a broken spring or congealed oil of grease etc. Disassembly instructions may be found in the FAQ section. What did the primer on the hot load look like after you fired it?

El Lobo

[zap]

The primer did not look very flat on edges, but had some cratering. these are wolf magnums.

[big honkin jeep]

Hang fires could be the result of loading with charge weights below published minimums. I would suggest taking a couple of cartridges down and checking against published load data. Under charging cases can also lead to overpressure conditions. Sounds like an ammo problem to me. Also check zero on your scale.

[hunter2]

Primers seated ok? Have seen them backed out slightly upon seating the bullet too fast. Have had this happen a lot on the 300 blk. Have also had this problem using h414 in 7mm-08 and did not matter how much was in the case. Went to another powder and problem went away. It is scarey feeling the firing pin hit before ignition. good luck

[handirifle]

You mentioned a "noticable delay", was the delay in firing AFTER the pin hit the primer, and/or was it a delay after pulling trigger, before pin hit primer?

If it was a delay between pulling trigger and pin to primer, I'd say the inside of the bolt needs to be cleaned.

[skoger]

I have heard of batches of wolf primers being too hard and too soft, but shoot great otherwise. I have had the problem several times with CCI primers over the years, and dont fool with them anymore. I got one batch, that in my favorite mauser with a #26 pound firing pin spring, instead of the factory #17, would only bounce off and not even dent them. I calledCCi and they said this was a common problem, send them in, they would replace the brick. I thanked them but did not, instead dumped them in water and buried them, have only used Winchester primers since.

[Blue Avenger]

the sear dragging on the stock can slow it also. Not sure if that plays into your symptoms.

[mscott71]

It's the Wolf magnum primers. I have about 800 left that I'll probably bury in a hole somewhere. They used to have a good reputation, but do a search and you'll find others having the same problems with them.

[zap]

Thanks for all the replies.



You mentioned a "noticable delay", was the delay in firing AFTER the pin hit the primer, and/or was it a delay after pulling trigger, before pin hit primer?

If it was a delay between pulling trigger and pin to primer, I'd say the inside of the bolt needs to be cleaned.

After talking to my brother about this , I am now thinking that the noise that I heard may have been the sear tripping, and the firing pin is taking a little time, possibly dragging on something to reach the primer. Just a thought.

I would squeeze the trigger, then hear a click. There was no delay from trigger to the click. The delay came after the click. So I am really thinking that some dirt or grease may be causing the issue. I will take the bolt apart and see what gives.

As far as bad primers, definitely poissible, but I have been using them from the same box with no problems until today.I will probably try a different brand anyway, as I do not like the cratering that I am seeing with these wolfs.

And they are definitely seated good, if anything they seem too deep for some reason.I did not measure the depth. I think it is just an illusion, as I am not used to seeing a small primer in a case of that diameter.

Thanks again, and I will give an update to this, after I take the bolt apart.

[big honkin jeep]

Do yourself a favor and pull a couple of rounds down. I had the exact same problem that you describe with under charged cases in .300RUM. They were only about 3gr under minimum about a 4-5% difference in charge weight.. A small mistake with zero on your scale can make a huge difference and cause exactly what you describe.

[sharpshooter]

Wrong primer,wrong powder.
CCI 450, is the primer that is perfect for that case.
H4350,IMR 4350,REL 17, IMR 4831.

[zap]

I took the bolt apart. There was some hard gummy residue on the firing pin.Also a lot of light oil on the inside of the bolt body, not sure if that is supposed to be in there , but I sprayed carb cleaner on most everything to clean it up. Firing pin protrusion looks to be .053, within specks if I checked it correctly.

I guess the only real way to see if the cleaning helped, is to try those combos again, and also try some of the combos I have tried in the past.

Thanks everyone !

[zap]

I seated some primers from the same box of 100,and shot them. They all went off nicely. So, either the pin assembly that was a little gummy and dirty was causing the issue, or something is up with the powder/ primer combo.

I did get on lapuas website and double checked my load data, and I was above their recommended starting charge.

I am going to load some more of the same load and see what happens. If they are fine than I will say that cleaning the bolt out fixed the issue.
I will update after I get a chance to shoot.

[zap]

Went back to the range to test some r 17 and try the combo that was causing the hang fires last week.

I started out shooting some loads with r17 and no hang fires at all. I did switch to cci br4 primers. After that I went to the N550 and wolf primers, and again, hang fires.

I will have to try that powder (n550) and cci br4 primers next, then I can rule out faulty powder causing the hang fires.

The only thing I found out in this outing was that my firing pin is working just fine, and I am pretty sure it was fine before I checked it last week.

[big honkin jeep]

I don't think it's the primer alone but the primer powder combo causing your problems.
I wouldn't trash the wolf primers just yet, they are probably fine for another application.
What kind of load density are you getting with the N550? I suspect a load density problem especially if you're near start with your loadings.
I also suspect if you try the same charge of N550 with the br4s you may have the same problem.
From my experience with hang fires I really don't think it's a rifle problem but a load problem
Here's an article you may or may not have seen on some load work up for the 6.5x47.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek072/
Good Luck and be careful.

[zap]

[quote=big honkin jeep ]
I don't think it's the primer alone but the primer powder combo causing your problems.
I wouldn't trash the wolf primers just yet, they are probably fine for another application.
What kind of load density are you getting with the N550? I suspect a load density problem especially if you're near start with your loadings.
I also suspect if you try the same charge of N550 with the br4s you may have the same problem.
From my experience with hang fires I really don't think it's a rifle problem but a load problem
Here's an article you may or may not have seen on some load work up for the 6.5x47.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek072/
Good Luck and be careful.

I am not sure what % of the case is full. But I started at least 1 full grain above Lapuas starting charge.At 36 grains it is up to the base of the shoulder angle when I check before seating bullets. You may be onto something though. When I shot yesterday, I went 1 grain higher than my last load on the initial try with this combo, and it seemed that the hesitation was slightly quicker. I am wondering if the closer I get to my rifles max load for that combo, if they will go away. ???

Don't worry, I won't do anything to the rest of my wolf primers, (all 1700) that I have left. They worked fine with several other powders in my 6.5. I will try them someday with my .223 .

I read the article on Darrels rifle several times and actually read it again this morning. His charge of n550 is much higher than were I am at so far. I will keep working up next time out and see how it goes with br 4 primers.