whats your favorite black bear caliber.

[JASmith]

Hornady puts Black bear in the same "medium game" (50-300 lb) as caribou, deer and antelope. Using their calculator (http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator), one can conclude that a 6.5 mm (.260") bullet of standard construction (CoreLokt, PowerPoint, GameKing. Etc.) traveling faster than about 1700-1800 ft/sec should be adequate. This minimum velocity also happens to correspond with the threshold velocity for reliable expansion in these standard bullets.

By this standard, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, and larger should work. As it happens, a number of folks have taken black bear with the cartridges and are very pleased with the results.

[jtkratzer]

But saying "X caliber and larger will work" isn't always the case. The .308 is mentioned, yet the 260 has superior ballistics and terminal performance. My point is that larger isn't always better. To each his own is right, but the "no replacement or displacement" argument doesn't apply to ballistics and KE. That's my point, not that you can use the minimum.

[hcpyro13]

If you have a weatherby in the closet, I would not think twice to bring it. That's my all time favorite hunting cartridge.

[davemuzz]

I would agree with the above that the 260 or the 6.5x55 would both perform better than the .308 with proper bullets, but I mention the .308 because of its popularity.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Perhaps a large part of the problem with discussions like this one is that there's a fair amount of ambiguous use (and flat out misuse) of terminology going on, which results in a lot of miscommunication. When someone says "bigger" in this context, are they referring to bullet diameter (caliber)? Bullet weight? Energy? Some combination of the three? Are we talking about bigger size, or more "power"?

There's also an unfortunate tendency to use "caliber" as a synonym for "cartridge", which adds to the confusion. Speaking in terms of caliber is nearly useless in a discussion about adequate killing power.

[efm77]

"To each his own is right, but the "no replacement or displacement" argument doesn't apply to ballistics and KE." True because KE relies heavily on velocity. I am part of the "no replacement for displacement" school in that I believe a larger diameter bullet, at an equal velocity to a smaller diameter will hit harder. As we've said to each their own but I'll take the larger caliber for black bear and up. A 45-70, even when loaded hot doesn't have as much energy as a lot of other smaller caliber (bullet diameter) rounds but when it comes to large game it has proven it's penetration capabilities time and again. I really like the 6.5mm's a lot but personally won't use them on bears.

[cgeorgemo]

efm77
If the larger diameter bullet weighs less than the smaller diameter bullet, at the same speed, it doesn't hit harder.
Kinetic energy doesn't use diameter to calculate the energy.
It is all about mass and velocity.
EK = (1/2)mv2

[davemuzz]

Look.....it's just a black bear. Here in Pa they get killed every year by arrows, .260's, 30-cal of your liking, and big thumping-arse 8- mm or 45-70's loaded for (I can't help it) BEAR!! They all die when (and that's really the most important part) hit in the right place.

But, no matter how they die.....they still tase like..........bear. (ick).

Dave

[thomae]

I for one don't argue with physics.
However, the term "hit harder" is not a technical term and therefore can be interpreted in any number of ways.
From the point of view of my small brain, it seems pointless to debate subjective terminology like that.
I will suggest that a larger diameter bullet MIGHT (but not necessarily WILL in all cases)transfer a greater percentage of its Kinetic Energy to the target animal.

:nono: Please, please, lets be careful not to let this thread disintegrate into another thread similar to the .223 versus 5.56 NATO thread elsewhere on this forum.

Also, please remember that the OP asked what your FAVORITE (Caps and bold to emphasize, not because I am shouting) Black Bear caliber. You and I can have different favorite calibers and/or cartridges and be equally successful at the hunt. No argument of mine, regardless of how logical it seems to me at present, will change the fact that caliber X or cartridge Y is your favorite one for any specific purpose.:thumb:​

[efm77]

"If the larger diameter bullet weighs less than the smaller diameter bullet, at the same speed, it doesn't hit harder."

Well I guess I didn't elaborate enough on that one. I certainly didn't mean a lighter bullet. You are correct there. That's one of the major points to having a larger caliber to me, to get more weight.

"Kinetic energy doesn't use diameter to calculate the energy.
It is all about mass and velocity.
EK = (1/2)mv2"

Already knew that. That was kinda my point. With a larger diameter you can get more mass because you can get heavier bullets. Look we all have our own opinions. How many times do I have to say it? Like I said I prefer larger diameters for larger critters but if you want to use a 6.5mm have at it. It's all personal preference. I never said they wouldn't work. I've tried to give me opinion and why I feel that way the same as everyone else here but never meant to start an argument or have formulas that I already know shoved at me to try to prove that you're right just because you like a different caliber from me. Sorry if I offended anyone. This thread has gotten way off topic here so I'm done.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

"If the larger diameter bullet weighs less than the smaller diameter bullet, at the same speed, it doesn't hit harder."

Well I guess I didn't elaborate enough on that one. I certainly didn't mean a lighter bullet. You are correct there. That's one of the major points to having a larger caliber to me, to get more weight.

"Kinetic energy doesn't use diameter to calculate the energy.
It is all about mass and velocity.
EK = (1/2)mv2"

Already knew that. That was kinda my point. With a larger diameter you can get more mass because you can get heavier bullets. Look we all have our own opinions. How many times do I have to say it? Like I said I prefer larger diameters for larger critters but if you want to use a 6.5mm have at it. It's all personal preference. I never said they wouldn't work. I've tried to give me opinion and why I feel that way the same as everyone else here but never meant to start an argument or have formulas that I already know shoved at me to try to prove that you're right just because you like a different caliber from me. Sorry if I offended anyone. This thread has gotten way off topic here so I'm done.

So, let me see if I've got this straight: Immediately following my post about how misuse of terminology causes confusion and miscommunication in discussions like this, and that speaking in terms of caliber is essentially meaningless in this context you proceed to speak in terms of caliber, misusing it as a synonym for bullet weight...and now you're complaining because someone took you to mean what you actually said vs what you now claim you really meant, and then they had the audacity to post (not "shoved at" you) a formula about mass and velocity. Does that about sum it up?

[efm77]

No. I assumed you guys would knew what I meant but that's my fault for assuming. What I meant is that with a 6.5mm about the heaviest bullet that I know of you can get is around 140gr. My point is that with a 7mm you can go up to 175-180 gr., with a .308 you can get 180-220gr, .338 225-300 gr, etc. My point is that it is my opinion that, for example, a 225 gr .338 launched at the same velocity as a 140 gr 6.5mm is going to hit harder and be more effective on larger game than the 6.5mm. Again, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone.

[Blue Avenger]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/gcidso123/funny%20pic/emocons/threadjacked.gif

[jtkratzer]

It all depends on BC and SD...velocity at the muzzle is pretty useless. SD is a huge factor in penetration. BC is going to factory into retained velocity. .308 Winchester is not going to push a 180-230 (Berger makes them this heavy) at the same speed as any 6.5mm bullet because .260 Rem is the same case as .308.

What does "hit harder" mean?

The formula is correct using only mass and velocity, but something that's missing is the BC of the bullet and its ability to retain velocity and subsequently KE as it travels toward the target.

KE, bullet performance, etc is a lot more involved than just bullet diameter and velocity.

As far as killing bears, shot placement is far more important than all the scientific talk. Shoot what you're comfortable with and can consistently shoot accurately. And use a properly constructed bullet.

[kevin_stevens]

Also, please remember that the OP asked what your FAVORITE (Caps and bold to emphasize, not because I am shouting) Black Bear caliber. You and I can have different favorite calibers and/or cartridges and be equally successful at the hunt. No argument of mine, regardless of how logical it seems to me at present, will change the fact that caliber X or cartridge Y is your favorite one for any specific purpose.:thumb:​



My favorite black bear caliber is .30-06. My favorite black bear cartridge is the Federal 180g Barnes TSX.

KeS

[irondog54]

45/70 with 460gr lead cast flat point@ about1600 fps.