What would you ask Savage to improve?

[nsaqam]

Chevrolet builds the 556 hp CTS-V which competes on even terms with any BMW and surpasses most of them.

And I'm a BMW junkie.

If Chevy can build a world beater then so can Savage.

Thanks for the apt comparison.

[Eric in NC]

Other than the bolt tollerance/timing issues mentioned, I would really like Savage to come out with a nice rimfire action. I know the model 93's are accurate, but it looks and feels like a toy and don't even get into trying to bed one effectively etc.

[whit]

Eliminate the bottom bolt release. The release is in the way every time I need to get to the rear action screw.

[big honkin jeep]

Ditch the Axis and make a LH Stevens 200



+1 more
The Axis is atrocious. I had to order an Edge to find out how bad they were and had a hard time selling it at a loss because of the reputation that preceded it. I know they are aimed at the economy market but if Marlin can build the XS7 and XL7 as economy rifles then Savage can put out a much higher quality piece than they currently do to compete in that market. A revamped Stevens 200 (on the 110 style action) is the answer.
On the other end of the spectrum.
Bringing back a tough, weather resistant hunting rifle with all the factory bells and whistles like the 116FLCSAK and the 116FCSAK would also be a sight for sore eyes. these rifles are great and finding a used one is impossible. Too pricy through the custom shop, We need a factory option for a loaded.

[BoilerUP]

Chevrolet builds the 556 hp CTS-V which competes on even terms with any BMW and surpasses most of them.

And I'm a BMW junkie.

If Chevy can build a world beater then so can Savage.

Thanks for the apt comparison.


Actually, the CTS-V is a Cadillac product, not a Chevrolet...but you know that.

Hence, the point I was trying to make.

Chevrolets are boring, affordable, and do the job well. You can spend more money to do the same basic thing, with the only real difference being aesthetics and maybe a little more refinement.

Savage is a Chevy...a Savage Custom Shop rifle is your CTS-V.

[nsaqam]

Chevy makes the 638 hp Corvette ZR1.

A better car than almost any at twice the price.

Ok, I'll say that I'd like Savage to produce a "halo" brand like the Corvette is for Chevy.

As for Effie and the custom shop, that just doesn't satisfy my desire for a really LW LH rifle as the barrel is still Savage and they still sport a barrel nut.

I'm just saying that I believe Savage to be capable of making a modern 1920 which would draw buyers from Kimber, Forbes, and Winchester.

Savage has plenty of sub $600 rifles and even some priced well over $1000. Keep these and add that halo.

A halo brand from Savage would likely do well if the rifle were well designed and constructed. Add in a new production 99 to this halo brand and you could have a very formidable lineup. And one where the concern for maintaining traditional Savage pricing (ie. LOW) can be minimized.

I ask again, who here would like a modern rendition of the iconic and sublime 1920?

[ellobo]

nsaquam, your are forgetting that it is the floating bolt head and barrel nut for prechambered barrels that makes the Savage accurate. To get the same from a solid bolt and shouldered barrel you need a lot more handwork and lapping of the lugs. More costs. And how much more than other chevies does that one you mentioned cost? How many different models does Kimber have, Or any other maker for example?If I wanted rifles like that I have a multitude to choose from for a lot more money and no ability to change calibers without excesive so cost. The multipart bolt and barrel nut is what makes Savage unique, why make a vanilla rifle when what you have just needs better QC and slight redesign with amultitude of aftermarket parts if you desire. Even other makers are going to the nutted barrel. Makes you wonder why.

El Lobo

[efm77]

Very good point El Lobo. Reinforces what I said. Going nutless defeats a lot of the purpose of the Savage. As for confidence in Savage? I have all the confidence in the world they could produce the kind of rifle nsaqam wants but it comes down to niche, demand, cost of production etc. Savage has their niche. To produce those old models today would be very expensive but maybe with modern CNC machining it could be somewhat affordable. I don't know. But my point is that there is a lot more demand for rifles in the price range that Savage makes and probably a lot less demand for the ones in the price range of the Kimbers, etc. Now I like other rifles too. I've always been a fan of the Model 70 and the M77 MKII and some others as well. If I want those kinds of features that's the rifles I look to. I've never owned a Kimber rifle although I like the looks of them and would gladly own one. But I hope a lot of their cost is in their stocks because the way the action is made it should cost less than a Model 70. The Kimber has a round tubular receiver and a washer style recoil lug which equals less machine work than a flat bottomed Model 70 receiver with integral recoil lug. All I'm saying is that there are different kinds for a reason....different strokes for different folks. I happen to like the look of the Savage and don't find it ugly at all. But I'll also admit it's not as pretty as a nice Winchester or Kimber, etc. or even a Ruger (I have a soft spot for Rugers like you do for Kimbers).

[ellobo]

Well, it seems there is one thing the majority of us agree on. BRING back the 99 with the rotary magazine. The excuse for doing away with it was cost. With cnc and modern near net casting techniques they could be made a lot cheaper than previously. so bring it back Savage. As a midrange hunting rifle they cant be beat. Wish I had kept mine.

El Lobo

[nsaqam]

nsaquam, your are forgetting that it is the floating bolt head and barrel nut for prechambered barrels that makes the Savage accurate. To get the same from a solid bolt and shouldered barrel you need a lot more handwork and lapping of the lugs. More costs. And how much more than other chevies does that one you mentioned cost? How many different models does Kimber have, Or any other maker for example?If I wanted rifles like that I have a multitude to choose from for a lot more money and no ability to change calibers without excesive so cost. The multipart bolt and barrel nut is what makes Savage unique, why make a vanilla rifle when what you have just needs better QC and slight redesign with amultitude of aftermarket parts if you desire. Even other makers are going to the nutted barrel. Makes you wonder why.

El Lobo



Most accurate rifles being shot today have a shouldered barrel and and a solid bolt so I don't buy that a floating bolthead and a nutted barrel are the only way to get accuracy.
I don't wonder for a second why some other makers are going to a nutted barrel. Its because it's cheap and untrained people can assemble them with ease.

Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.

As for niche marketing, that is exactly where Savage should go with a halo brand. Go after the Kimber 84 buyers, the M70 FW buyers, and those who buy European firearms. Make a splash with the reintroduction of the 99 to build brand and garner press. Add a serious competitor into the LW rifle market from the folks who invented the LW rifle, Savage with it's unique 1920. No other boltgun of the time was a lively and lightweight as the 1920. Heck, few are today.
I realize that Mr Coburn likely has solid reasons why an upmarket halo brand from Savage isn't a good idea but I think both profit and prestige would be enhanced if they took the task seriously.

I want Savage to thrive as I have a soft spot for them due to their regard for us lefties.

[nsaqam]

The OP asked what I'd ask Savage to improve upon.

I answered with what I'd like to see.

Will any of the suggestions made throughout this thread find their way to the production line? Who knows.

I do know I'd love to buy a new copy of a 40's-50's Savage 99 and a modernized LH 1920.

You guys would too, admit it! ;)

Don't worry guys, there will always be 110's of some kind for you guys to fettle over. ;D

[Aircraftmech76]

Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.


Not any more: http://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/#{"p":"0"}

Kevin

[jinx-)]

your ar-15 has barrel nut for a quick change barrel option, I guess one of the expensive rifles with barrel nut would be Tubb rifle its like 5K+

http://www.davidtubb.com/davidtubb/content/images_inv/b/r/139/RifleTAC.jpg

[nsaqam]

Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.


Not any more: http://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/#{"p":"0"}

Kevin


Wow, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
That is the most hideous device I've ever seen.
It's a joke right?
April Fools early?

Wow!

[LabRat2k3]

How about these guys? Do they qualify as high end? They have a barrel nut and a floating bolt head.
http://www.shilen.com/productsCompleteRifles.html

[Aircraftmech76]

Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.


Not any more: http://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/#{"p":"0"}

Kevin


Not a joke. I'm not hot on the aesthetics on that stock; it's definitely gonna have to go. If Boyd's would come out with an inlet for it, I think you might see it take off...

Kevin

Wow, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
That is the most hideous device I've ever seen.
It's a joke right?
April Fools early?

Wow!

[jgerrington]

I happen to like the barrel nut and bolt face. The floating bolt face does help with accuracy. It's the reason I'm not taking my bolt to get it trued. It doesn't matter. I don't mind not having a one piece bolt. What savage is doing works well.
What I would like to see is tighter tolerances throughout and better fit with bolt to action. I want a true magnum action. Maybe same design but thicker overall with thicker recoil lug and action lugs. Thicker action lugs would be better with all their long actions

[efm77]

We all here have stated what we'd like to see them do and we're all entitled to our opinion. I just disagree with you that there's enough demand in the high end market for Savage to see fit to make a rifle in the same price class as a Kimber, Winchester etc. No one said you couldn't build an accurate rifle with a shouldered barrel. It's just quicker and easier to do with a nutted barrel. I don't view it as "cheaper" in a sense that it's a bad thing. I view it as ease of manufacturing. And as for bolts, I can't think of any bolt action except Ruger and probably the custom actions that have a true one piece bolt. Well Montana Rifle Co. might since Ruger casts their receivers and probably the bolts too for them. Even Winchester's bolt handle is a seperate piece that's pressed onto splines on the rear of the bolt body. Remington has a seperate bolt head and handle. They're brazed on to the bolt body. However, I too have never bought the whole floating bolt head contributing to accuracy and here's why. If the lug recesses are off a little and the bolt head tilts slightly to get full lug contact, then the bolt face is not square with the chamber anymore, thus putting a slight angle of pressure against the cartridge.

[rusty815]

Most accurate rifles being shot today have a shouldered barrel and and a solid bolt so I don't buy that a floating bolthead and a nutted barrel are the only way to get accuracy.


You're right, a nutted barrel doesn't help accuracy, but it doesn't hurt it either, it simply makes it easier to change barrels, it requires little to no gunsmithing knowledge to do it (just a nut wrench, action vise and some go no go gauges and you're good to go), shouldered barrels almost require a gunsmith to change the barrel, most people with shouldered barrels stick with one, but with a savage you can change between several barrels relatively easily and quickly and shoot just as accurately with each barrel as someone with their shouldered barrel rifle.

I don't think you understand the idea behind the floating bolthead, the reason the "most accurate" rifles don't have a floating bolthead is because they are either made out of custom actions that are trued when they are made (some custom actions even come with a floating bolthead, take a look at bighorn custom actions), or the actions are bought as factory actions and trued by a smith. The reason the floating bolthead is so special is because with it, you're not required to true an action, the floating bolthead is rigid enough to withstand pretty much any recoil, but it allows enough movement to allow consistent headspacing and allows the locking lugs to fully contact the receiver, which is basically what truing accomplishes.

Sure, you may not "need" a floating bolthead or barrel nut, but these features are what makes Savage rifles user friendly and as accurate as any custom action out there.

[nsaqam]

However, I too have never bought the whole floating bolt head contributing to accuracy and here's why. If the lug recesses are off a little and the bolt head tilts slightly to get full lug contact, then the bolt face is not square with the chamber anymore, thus putting a slight angle of pressure against the cartridge.


Exactly!

I also do not agree that $1000 is a high end gun.

Who here would buy a modern version of the 1920 if the price were comparable to a Kimber 84?

Maybe not enough people have seen or held a 1920 to realize how sweet that rifle is.
Same with the Kimber 84.

Carry a 6.5 lb rifle all day and tell me it wasn't much more pleasant than carrying an 8.5 lb rifle.