Has anyone fired a Savage 7mm-08 with the new slower 1-11.5" twist rate

[Uncle Mike]

Bottom line...1/11.5" is to slow for heavier than 120gr.

Most of us use 140's in the 7mm-08 for deer and such...the new twist will not stabilize the 140's as well as the 1/9.5".

All said....I think I speak for the masses....we want the 1/9.25" or 1/9.5" twisted 7mm-08 back.

Jus cause someone at Savage got a smokin; deal on a gross of 1/11.5"ers, NO.....we want the faster twist back!

[herring]

Still no mail, email or phone response from Savage regarding 7mm-08 twist rate at certified letter sent over two weeks ago. I have not contacted Savage after I sent my usps correspondence. This kind of ticks me a little bit. A company with a fine product at an affordable price that will not respond to questions? - that is out of the box. I will post their phone response tomorrow morning starting with time of call, who I spoke with to start and details thereafter.

[Cycler]

Still no mail, email or phone response from Savage regarding 7mm-08 twist rate at certified letter sent over two weeks ago. I have not contacted Savage after I sent my usps correspondence. This kind of ticks me a little bit. A company with a fine product at an affordable price that will not respond to questions? - that is out of the box. I will post their phone response tomorrow morning starting with time of call, who I spoke with to start and details thereafter.
I don't expect you will get a satisfactory answer by mail or by phone. I tried both methods right after I bought my M16 7-08 and realized what the twist rate was. Two phone calls both got a "that's what it is" reply with absolutely no explanation or justification and my letter was returned with a form saying "call us to discuss this".

Why they are so closed mouth about this is a mystery to me too.

[Bill Star]

I shot National High Power Silhouette matches for years using a 7-08 with
a 1-12 twist. It stabilized 162gr and 168gr bullets well.
According to Jack O'Connor and all his custom barrel builders the 30-06 was
built with a 1-10 twist rate because it was a military requirement that the
bullet would remain stable out to and beyond a thousand yards. A hunter who
shoots at big game at 1000yds or beyond is irresponsible. O'Conor and his barrel
makers claim that a 220gr 30-06 loaded to 2400 fps in a 1-12 will be stabilized out to its
useful hunting range limit with lower chamber pressure. He also claims that his
beloved .270 winchester is over stabilized with anything faster than 1-12.
(all the above can be found in his book " The Rifle " ).
Do faster twist work ? Of course, but they tend to over stabilize the bullet,
shorten barrel life and increase chamber pressure needlessly.
I shoot my 7-08 with 168gr Sierra Matchking at 500 meters with my 1-12 custom barrel and
it shows no keyholing even slightly.
Rate of twist like most things is very subjective. To each his own....
But just let me say to a "rifle newbie" do not be afraid of Savages twist rate of 1-11.5
out to any reasonable hunting range with the 7-08 with bullets as heavy as 168gr.

[dfrosch]

The Stevens 7mm-08 comes with a 9.5" twist. Why not get it?

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm


That Is Just Not So The Stevens 200 Is also 1-11 1/2 Just a Bad Twist Rate


The website says 9.5" twist.

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm


<edit> Dan, You&#39;re right! Ran a patch through it and it is an 11.5" twist.

[tammons]

While a 1:12 twist or 1:11.5 twist might be great for target in 7mm-08, IMO it would be limiting for barnes tipped bullets, and that is an excellent hunting bullet.

Matter of fact most of the gun week 7mm rifles on 6mmBR.com are 1:9 twist.

A 7mm 140, 150 or 160 gr Barnes tipped bullet would probably shoot a minute of paper plate in a 1:11.5 twist
out of a 7mm-08 22" barrel. I have no real evidence, but they do take a fast twist to get them to group.
Not that you would really need a 160 gr barnes bullet in a 7mm-08 to get the job done.

That said I do see a lot of merit in slow twist being matched to the bullet, IE I used to shoot a 1:16 twist 30BR, and that was a tad too fast for 125 grainers, but at any rate for hunting rifles, especially if you shoot barnes bullets, a fast twist is desirable to me.

[hunter2]

Thought I would upgrade. Have tried to load it down a little for the kids using a 130 gr North Fork Technologies bullet ( these things are awesome ). Acc. just not there in the 11.5. Full loads work ok. Useing the Rem. or Ruger makes a huge difference. Will take "over stabilized over under any day". We should all be so lucky as to wear out barrels. Thats a lot of shooting!!!

[herring]

S/w receptionist who sent me to Kathy at sales. Explained the issue to Kathy and mentioned savageshooters.com thread regarding the issue. She sent me to marketing manager Bill Durmenty where I left a voice mail. Think I will get a call back - Kathy sounded quite receptive once I mentioned this thread with 878 hits and 26 replies. Much more receptive than a month ago. Thanks savageshooters.

[herring]

No return call from marketing manager Bill Durmety.
Will call again tomorrow.
Should I speak with Mr. Durmety or any other rep from Savage I will advise them to provide their response at this thread.
I will additionally ask that some one in their product development, engineers dept or the super smart Savage guy with the answers to respond also at this thread.

[herring]

No return call from Savage.
Called again this afternoon. Sales person was not as receptive as Kathy (voice was condescending and similar to the sales rep that I spoke to a month ago).
Call went:
Receptionist - to sales - to voice mail again.

I have a good hour before I will go to work tomorrow and I hope to complete this issue.
My intention is to get data posted on this thread.

[Cycler]

No return call from Savage.
Called again this afternoon. Sales person was not as receptive as Kathy (voice was condescending and similar to the sales rep that I spoke to a month ago).
Call went:
Receptionist - to sales - to voice mail again.

I have a good hour before I will go to work tomorrow and I hope to complete this issue.
My intention is to get data posted on this thread.
Bump. Any replies or follow up from Savage on this?

[herring]

Thanks for advice at this thread and on the forum.
Bill Star I am a novice and rely upon data available for my decisions.
I gave up on Savage a few weeks ago. I was comfortable with their affordable accurate rifles and as stated previously not comfortable with the Savage 7mm-08 twist rate.
I called Savage three times regarding their 7mm-08 1-11.5" twist rate and once got past a sales person who sent me to a sales rep who knew nothing about the issue.
I sent a certified letter to Savage regarding the 7mm-08 twist issue with email address, home phone and cell phone number and received a form letter two weeks later from Savage that stated that they were not able to contact me.
Great effort on their part to reach out and answer questions.
The form letter provided me with a new Savage phone contact number.
I called this number and spoke with a phone receptionist. I explained the reason for my call to the receptionist. She was very receptive to my issue and explained in detail that Savage Firearms sincerely welcomes and appreciates inquiries about their products.
She transferred my call to an individual that will be able to resolve my issue - a Savage product development person.
Nice. I actually get to speak to someone at Savage that will provide me with reasoning as to their 7mm-08 twist rate.
The product development guy picks up the phone. I politely ask why the Savage 7mm-08 twist rate is 1-11.5". He responds in a condescending manner and gives no explanation or data over our 10 minute phone call. I asked several questions during this time period and received a boiler plate response each time. Simple. A guy paid to defend a poor decision.

On a good note; I purchased two 7mm-08 Marlin xs7&#39;s on Saturday, one for me and one with shorter stock for my son. Drove 240 miles to Oneonta NY to get them as none were available on Long Island. Not a big issue as our Troop 29 East Moriches NY had a Boy Scout outing this past weekend nearby.

Bought them at WallyMart as no local dealers had them in stock (had to pre order at Wally). The guy during and after my purchase bought a Savage package rifle in 243. He spent $395, I spent $296 without scope. We compared rifles. I am not the super special guy to judge metal work or firearm overall quality. I did note that the Marlin had a smoother bolt action. Both Savage and Marlin appeared to be blued with the same average quality. Black plastic stock on the Marlin seemed to appear more well finished. I am thankful that the guys 243 Savage had an appropriate twist rate - he made sure of that before purchase - it was 1-9.25.

[TitanX]

I just bought a model 11 FLNS 7mm08, and shot about $200 worth of ammo through it, 140gr Prvi Partizan and 140gr Federal Fusion. The gun was all over the map. I did find that the action screws, both front and back, were so loose they nearly fell out. Tightened all that up (checked all scope related screws), still no dice. So i changed the scope to a Leupold VXII with leupold rings and warne steel bases. Still no dice.

So i sent the gun back to savage, they returned the gun and when i talked with them on the phone they said they didnt do anything. I measured the twist using the non-scientific method of pushing a jag and rod down the barrel and measuring how long it went into make 1 revolution. prior to sending it back to them it was around 11", AFTER getting it back it is more like 9-10". Now i see on the website it says the twist rate is 1-9.5". Since my gun is a lefty it may be an older one that had the 11" rate. I think they rebarelled it but wont say.

They sent it back with a proof target showing 0.6" @ 100yds with 140gr win ballistic silvertips. well 1. i dont buy an off the shelf average gun shooting .6" 2. i dont buy it going from throwing shots all over the paper (5"+ @100yds from sandbags!) to nearly 1/2 MOA with "no changes".

i took the gun back out, and i cant get the thing to group any better, consistently, than 3-4" @ 100yds, even tried hornady 139gr SSTs. So i am going to talk to savage tomorrow and see what is the next step or what can be done. Also going to buy a led sled gun rest to completely remove the shooter from the equation, but i know my shooting abilities, and 3-4" @ 100yds is totally bogus.

PS i didnt try 140gr WIN BSTs because they arent sold around here, and i&#39;m not gonna spend more money mail ordering expensive ammo. if i get bupkiss from savage i may just try to sell the gun and either buy a 308 or something...being left handed sucks btw.

i&#39;ll keep the board updated on how it all turns out!

[Jamie]

They sent it back with a proof target showing 0.6" @ 100yds with 140gr win ballistic silvertips. well 1. i dont buy an off the shelf average gun shooting .6" 2. i dont buy it going from throwing shots all over the paper (5"+ @100yds from sandbags!) to nearly 1/2 MOA with "no changes".

i took the gun back out, and i cant get the thing to group any better, consistently, than 3-4" @ 100yds, even tried hornady 139gr SSTs. So i am going to talk to savage tomorrow and see what is the next step or what can be done. Also going to buy a led sled gun rest to completely remove the shooter from the equation, but i know my shooting abilities, and 3-4" @ 100yds is totally bogus.


Not going to say whether they did or didn&#39;t do anything to your rifle but .6" with off the shelf Savages isn&#39;t uncommon at all and if a gun doesn&#39;t like a certain ammo then it can easily go from from scattergun to under 1". It happens all the time. If I feed my .25" .243 Savage loads it doesn&#39;t like it will go over 3". The gun will tell you what it likes and this case it seems it is saying it likes 140 grain BSTs.

[bigcatdaddy]

In my limited experience, the Lead Sled leaves plenty of room for operator error?

[ClutchKick]

I just got one last week and hit the range with 140gr winchester super x
s. it was terrible to say the least. at the end of the box my last 3 shot group was 2 touching on flying 3 inches. im gonna try the 120gr fusions and see if it gets any better. when I called savage they said i could send it in to be checked out, they also said the recommended bullet was a 140 nosler ballistic tip. Im debating on sending it in as I was also told if they have to replac ethe barrel and I put a note in with it that they may be able to change it to the new one with a 1:9.5 twist but Im not sure if im gonna waste the time or jsut change it to a 308 sooner than I was planning

[GaCop]

Been doing some research on the 6.8 SPC for an AR and they used to all be chambered in 1-10 twist, and are now going to 1-11 or 1-12. These are very similar to the 7mm (6.8). The SPC uses bullets in the lighter range, 85 to 110gr, and there have been zero issues with stabilazition.

Of course I have heard of no one using heavier than 110. Most likely, the 1-10 would do better for 140+ weight bullets, IMHO. I went through the slow twist delima with an H&R rifle(s) in 223 with the 1-12 twist, with less than stellar results on anything over 40gr. I have not had that problem with 1-9 twist Savages.

Buy a 22-250 Savage, and sell the barrel. It will go like hotcakes, and help pay for a nice 1-10 aftermarket 7-08 barrel.


Sierra also makes a 115 grain BTHP. In 2005, I had one of the early 6.8 Rem ARs with the original 1 in 9.5 twist. The Sierra 115 gr BTHP or what they called the OTM-Open Tip Match was THE factory load from Remington then. Over the years, it was learned the 1 in 11 or 1 in 12 twist with the SPC II chamber allowed higher velocities without popping primers like a 1 in 9 twist will with the Silver States tactical loads. Early 6.8 ammo had the large rifle primer too.

[wsmitty01]

I shoot Remington 120&#39;s factory load with my Stevens 11.5. It will print about 5/8&#39;" at 100 yards and about a litle over an inch at 200. The Remingon 140&#39;s will do about 1" at 100....I use it for whitetails, so not a problem...I also stiffened the forearm and bedded it,,broke in the barrel with the J&B borepaste method,,,shoots real good for me!!!!!!!!!!!

[TitanX]

I just bought a model 11 FLNS 7mm08, and shot about $200 worth of ammo through it, 140gr Prvi Partizan and 140gr Federal Fusion. The gun was all over the map. I did find that the action screws, both front and back, were so loose they nearly fell out. Tightened all that up (checked all scope related screws), still no dice. So i changed the scope to a Leupold VXII with leupold rings and warne steel bases. Still no dice.

So i sent the gun back to savage, they returned the gun and when i talked with them on the phone they said they didnt do anything. I measured the twist using the non-scientific method of pushing a jag and rod down the barrel and measuring how long it went into make 1 revolution. prior to sending it back to them it was around 11", AFTER getting it back it is more like 9-10". Now i see on the website it says the twist rate is 1-9.5". Since my gun is a lefty it may be an older one that had the 11" rate. I think they rebarelled it but wont say.

They sent it back with a proof target showing 0.6" @ 100yds with 140gr win ballistic silvertips. well 1. i dont buy an off the shelf average gun shooting .6" 2. i dont buy it going from throwing shots all over the paper (5"+ @100yds from sandbags!) to nearly 1/2 MOA with "no changes".

i took the gun back out, and i cant get the thing to group any better, consistently, than 3-4" @ 100yds, even tried hornady 139gr SSTs. So i am going to talk to savage tomorrow and see what is the next step or what can be done. Also going to buy a led sled gun rest to completely remove the shooter from the equation, but i know my shooting abilities, and 3-4" @ 100yds is totally bogus.

PS i didnt try 140gr WIN BSTs because they arent sold around here, and i&#39;m not gonna spend more money mail ordering expensive ammo. if i get bupkiss from savage i may just try to sell the gun and either buy a 308 or something...being left handed sucks btw.

i&#39;ll keep the board updated on how it all turns out!


followup: selling the gun, going to a .308. Not interested in a gun that A. requires 50x of ammo to find one that will work acceptably, and B. not interested in a gun that will only shoot 1 specific brand/bullet.

several other rifles i&#39;ve owned never exhibited such peculiarity. probably just get a savage 308, would love the model 16 for the accustock, but i cant stand the bright stainless finish for a hunting gun.

[sha-ul]

if you were a paid member here, you could either post the whole rifle for sale here, or you could buy/sell/trade barrels for the caliber you want. ;)