advice on issues with Model 14 Classic

[cptbahama]

Hello friends. I have this (http://"http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/14CLASSIC") rifle from Savage. I was pretty happy with it out of the box but as time goes on, I am feeling the desire to return it to Savage. I went to the website and looked at customer service/ warranty info and was very surprised to see that they only offer a one year warranty.

The overall biggest problem is that I can't get shots to group. I don't think I'm expecting too much from this rifle. I'm a handloader and I have tried 3 powders (IMR 4064, Varget, and H4895) and a dozen brass and bullet combinations. I just can't get tight groups. At 50 yards I am getting 3 to 4" groups. At 100 yards about the same, sometimes 5" groups. Granted I have gotten a few 1.5" groups but using the SAME loads that achieved those groups, the next time I shoot those loads, I get 3 or 4" groups again. I am using a good solid rest. I passed a dollar bill around the bbl and it appears to be free-floating. I have a torque drive and torqued the stock to various foot pounds (20 to 40), still can't find a sweet spot.

A few other minor issues:
--- The rear trigger guard screw was stripped from day 1.
--- The Savage emblem on bottom of the stock pistol grip recently fell off (it was glued)
--- The safety is not smooth, you have to work it side to side to get it all the way forwards and backwards

I was thinking since it has been beyond one year (it's been about 1.5 years since I purchased), my choices are to call Savage and plead my case or send it to my gunsmith.

I appreciate any and all advice.

Many thanks-

[jhelmuth]

Well... one thing I noticed is what you said was the range of torque values you tried. IF we assume you were correct in saying you used foot pounds (not inch pounds), then the most likely culprit is over torquing the action to the stock and creating incredible stress on the action (and that might also explain the "stripped out" screw too).

Stock to Action torque values would have been more appropriate in the 15 to 60 inch pound range. Just to give you an idea of the stress oad that would create on the action, a 5 inch pounds torque value would equal about 100 lbs. of clamping force - 60 inch pounds of torque would equate to almost 1300 lbs of force. And it would only take about 6 inch pounds of torque to deflect the action about 0.020 to 0.025".

I can't even imagine what stress you rifle was under, but suffice to say it isn't/wasn't good.

I hope you actually meant to say inch (not foot) pounds as the scale...

[Carvera]

What caliber? You don't have a 7MM-08 with the slower twist do you?

[cptbahama]

Yes, I meant inch pounds. And the rear trigger screw was stripped out of the box. I never used the torque driver on it.

I have tried factory ammo. I have had one other competent shooter pattern the rifle with same results.

It is .308 Win

[Eric in NC]

Try another scope? Make sure rings and bases are tight and that the front base screw isn't too long (they frequently bottom out on the barrel threads and don't get tight).

[jo191145]

Have you tried bedding it?

Does that safety work good with the action out of the stock?

A common problem I've found with Savage wood stocks is if not bedded and overtightened you can crack the wood around the rear pillar.
Look CLOSELY between the pillar and mag box. See any vertical lines that seem out of place? Usually pretty easy to see.

ALL of my two screw woods have been repaired either with a Talley crossbolt or in light recoilers a simple wood scab epoxied in the mag box will suffice. Then rebed.

[Doby45]

Being a reloader, have you tried different bullet weights to see if there is a specific weight that it likes?

[jpdown]

Based on my experience, my bet is that it is a scope problem. I was recently trying out a Leupold VX-R I purchased used online. I was replacing a Leupold VX-3. My groups went from less than 1" to 3" to 4" all around the bullseye. So it is on its way back to Leupold for repair.

If you have checked all the bolts/screws are tight. Made sure the barrel and tang are free floated. And it is not the scope. Then return it to Savage Arms with a letter nicely explaining your problem and ask them to check it out. I bet if it is a problem with their rifle, they fix it at no cost to you. I don't think I would waste any more time and ammo trying to find a cure.

[jhelmuth]

Based on my experience, my bet is that it is a scope problem. I was recently trying out a Leupold VX-R I purchased used online. I was replacing a Leupold VX-3. My groups went from less than 1" to 3" to 4" all around the bullseye. So it is on its way back to Leupold for repair.

If you have checked all the bolts/screws are tight. Made sure the barrel and tang are free floated. And it is not the scope. Then return it to Savage Arms with a letter nicely explaining your problem and ask them to check it out. I bet if it is a problem with their rifle, they fix it at no cost to you. I don't think I would waste any more time and ammo trying to find a cure.


Good advice...

...and I hope the Leupy you sent back for repair was not one of those internet China fakes. Getting a Leupold off the web from anyone/place other than a reputable dealer is just not gonna happen for me. Tthere are too many stories about fakes that were sent in for factory service only to find they were not genuine.

[GaCop]

What caliber? You don't have a 7MM-08 with the slower twist do you?


+1, trying to shoot bullets heavier than 120 grains can be frustrating in a 1 in 11 twist barrel.

[viper9696]

scope or mount issue!!!! that would be my first try.

[cptbahama]

checked mounts, rings, all tight and mounted right. removed the scope and put it on my .243 mohawk, shoots like a laser.
i am eliminating scope/mount issues

questions regarding twist rate. Savage offers 1 in 10 twist for .308
is this twist rate more ideal for lighter bullets? that's what i gather from previous comment.
winchester model 70 offers the 1 in 12 twist rate for .308. is this better for heavier bullets?
I'd like to be able to shoot 125 grain all the way to 165 grain. what twist rate is better for this range? i am thinking the bbl of my savage is a lemon (or the chamber?)

[fyimo]

I have a Savage Model 14 American Classic in 308 and I'm shooting Hornady SST 150 grain bullets and I get about 1 inch groups at 100 yards and I think the rifle is more accurate then I am. I checked the Savage Web site and it says the Model 14 American Classic 308 has a 1 in 10 rifle twist. I probably will try some Speer 165 grain SPBT in and see how they group. I have leupold solid scope base and rings and a Vari-X II 3x9x40mm Leupold scope on it.

[barrel-nut]

1-10" twist should stabilize virtually anything you would typically load in a .308, roughly 125 gr to 200 gr.

Your grouping problem is probably not due to inadequate twist. I would, however, try some heavier loads, say in the 165-175 gr range. Most .308s do well in this range. Nothing wrong with 150s either.

With any of the powders you listed and a good medium weight bullet in carefully assembled handloads you should be getting in the 1" neighborhood or better. Something is definitely wrong. Your statement about the safety button binding concerns me. Is the tang area free floated?

If there are no obvious bedding issues, and you are sure the scope and mounts are good, then I hate to say it but your barrel may well be at fault. It does happen. Happened to me once.