223 Blue Dot Loads

[Ksmirk]

Fella's wasn't sure where to put this so it landed here, I recall some time ago about some low noise blue dot loads for the 223, I'd like to find some information on this a full house 223 load is pretty loud and if I recall they were getting pretty good velocity just not near the noise. Thanks for the help in advance. Later,

Kirk

[Carvera]

I believe the gentleman's name is James Calhoon. Google him up, you should find it in his "snake loads".

[1Shot]

..12.5grs of Blue-Dot is kinda the magic no.#... ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/bd.jpg

[dolomite_supafly]

I've used this load from the Hogdon website:

55 grain FMJ over 3.2 grains of Clays. It lists the velocity as 1060.

I have used pistol powders with everything from 33 grain Hornet bullets to 69 grain SMK's. I don't recall off the top of my head load data for the various powders with the various bullets.

A powder to look at also is Trail Boss it is fluffy and fills a lot of the case making it more consistent. I can say that there was differences in noise levels depending on whether the powder was at the rear of the case or towards the front of the case. This is the reason I started using Trail Boss with some 30 caliber subsonic loads.

Dolomite

[1Shot]

A powder to look at also is Trail Boss it is fluffy and fills a lot of the case..

Dolomite


...It does that alright...But she just does'nt get-er done in the .223...It's fun to shoot in the old 45/70 with 325gr. lead bullets...Groundhogs under 100yds hate it..lol.. ;D

[savageboy]

I use 12.5gr of blue dot w a 35 gr vmax in my .223ai and get great accuracy, low noise and 3100 fps. I shoot this load more than anything else in my rifle when shooting at 100yds.its deadly on woodchucks too

[Ksmirk]

I would like to shoot the 55gr. bullets since I have a mess of them and didn't have a clue as to where to start at, I know the shotgun/pistol powders will spike like crazy with the pressure so I thought asking woul be better than just trying to see what happened. This load would be for taking varmints in a populated area and the nosie is the biggest issue I have so far at least with one neighbor the others are glad to have me doing what I am but I'm sure the warden and sheriff are getting tired of the phonecalls from one person >:( I'm not looking for subsonic loads just something quieter than my K Hornet. Thanks fella's I'll have to check out some sites this evening when I get home. Later,

Kirk

[dolomite_supafly]

I would like to shoot the 55gr. bullets since I have a mess of them and didn't have a clue as to where to start at, I know the shotgun/pistol powders will spike like crazy with the pressure so I thought asking woul be better than just trying to see what happened. This load would be for taking varmints in a populated area and the nosie is the biggest issue I have so far at least with one neighbor the others are glad to have me doing what I am but I'm sure the warden and sheriff are getting tired of the phonecalls from one person >:( I'm not looking for subsonic loads just something quieter than my K Hornet. Thanks fella's I'll have to check out some sites this evening when I get home. Later,

Kirk


What powders do you have on hand?

What barrel length are you shooting from?

If you are starting from scratch I can test some loads for you using Trailboss which would be my first choice. I do not have any 55 grain bullets but I do have some 53 grain Sierras I can use. I also have 40 grain V-Max, 35 grain Hornet and 69 grain SMK's I can use to test with. I have a personal range at home so testing isn't a problem for me, load a few walk outside and shoot. Do this until I get something that works.

The load using Clays is a little louder than a 22lr but not as loud as a 22 magnum out of a 22" barrel. It does spike pressures a lot though. Trailboss seems a bit slower than Clays so that should be better.

This might keep you from having to buy a bunch of different powders to try before finding one that works.

Dolomite

[Ksmirk]

dolomite_supafly that would be freakin' awesome! all the powder I have on hand at this time is RL-15, RL-17, and Retumbo I've not gotten any shotgun/pistol powder yet kinda want to have a clue as to what I'm after money is a bit tight these days to be buying a mess of stuff I may not use.

The rifle is a Savage 12 26" barrel I've got a mess of the Varmint nightmare 55gr, 55gr V-Max, and 75gr A-Max bullets for what I'll be doing the 55gr. nightmare bullets will probably work the best and a max shot of 100 yards would be pushing it I'm sure! I have GM205M primers and LC brass. My range right now has change into my hunting area so were not shooting over there at this time. I'm sure we could figure out something for your time I could send ya cause what your offering would be a serious benifit to me! what velocity are you getting? I'd like to be around 2500fps so it would be kinda flat, my targets are pretty small where I would have to hit them so they won't run into a neighbors yard to die. Again dolomite_supafly thank you very much. Later,

Kirk

[Smokey262]

With the Varmint nightmare 55gr bullets and Blue Dot somewhere around the 11 to 13.5 range will do what you want

[Quickshot]

If I recall correctly from my trap shooting days, Blue Dot was an awfully dirty powder to use. Good for heavy back up loads though. Loaded some once for 45 long colt and it was dirty. Hope they have cleaned it up. I don't believe I would want to put it thru my rifle barrels otherwise. Maybe the increase in pressure in a rifle cartridge causes it to burn cleaner than in a shotgun. Sounds interesting though. Quick

[dolomite_supafly]

I'll try to work up a load based on my 53 grain bullets or if I can get to town today I'll try to pick up some 55 grain bullets because I am out anyways. I don't have a chrono but I can get you close to what you are asking based on other load data. I do a lot of odd stuff, look at some of my other projects I have done.

Using pistol powders with that long barrel will get you a QUIET shooting rifle. You will still have to contend with sonic crack but it will almost be like having a silencer on it. I have done a lot of work on subsonic loads that use pistol powders and have been successful in making a 30 cal load that was as quiet as a subsonic 22 LR fired from a 16" barreld 10/22. This same load, according to a program, estimated the muzzle energy that was equal to a 357 magnum when fired out of my 24" barrel. Most of these loads burned the powder in the first 4"-6" of barrel.

When trying to work up a quiet load the way I approach it is to use faster powders that way you have burned all the powder and pressures are dropping by the time the bullet exits. This does a couple of things, keeps the muzzle flash down and the muzzle noise down.

I only have a 18" barrel and that is fine. As long as it shoots fine in mine the same load in you 26" barrel is only going to be quieter.

I appreciate it but I don't expect anything, actually there is a reason I don't mind doing it.

Dolomite

[Ksmirk]

If you don't mind me asking what 30 caliber round would that have been? I've got a little 30 M1 carbine and that just sounds like too much fun.

Again thank you so much for the advice! if you don't mind I may in the future bother you for more information. Later,

Kirk

[dolomite_supafly]

If you don't mind me asking what 30 caliber round would that have been? I've got a little 30 M1 carbine and that just sounds like too much fun.

Again thank you so much for the advice! if you don't mind I may in the future bother you for more information. Later,

Kirk


It was a 7.62x25 Tokarev. I had a Savage chambered in it then loaded it with heavy bullets. I could also shoot cheap surplus in a pinch if I wanted to. It was a really fun round that hit with great authority compared to the noise level. Everyone who shot it just laughed because it was extremely quiet yet kicked pretty hard. The two didn't match, hard kick and low noise. Also, because I used fast burning pistol powders all the powder was burned in the first 6" or so and by the time the bullet exited the muzzle most of the pressure was gone resulting in absolutely no muzzle flash at night.

Drop was kind of rough, with a 25 yard zero I had roughly 15" of drop at 150 yards. At that distance I still had roughly the same energy as a 40 S&W at the muzzle.

I am not sure if you could do the same with a 30 carbine. Perhaps if you bored the case out to allow the heavy bullets to be seated deeper it might work. I don't have nor have I ever owned a M1 carbine so I don't know.

Feel free to ask away, if I know I'll answer, if not I won't even venture a guess on anything that might hurt someone.

Dolomite

[Lakota]

First post ,

Long time Savage onwer ;)

I havent shot this load unprotected , but can tell through the plugs that there is a considerable difference in report from full house factory and varget hand loads, Then with my accuracy load which is a charge of 21.5gr reloder 7, under a 55gr V-Max in remington brass with a cci srp..

And from a 26" barrel they are moving along at 3100+ ... So a little better then rat medicine though it would still work for that purpose ;D

Lakota

[dolomite_supafly]

I have some data but we are working on a few different avenues to get to the same result.

I'll I/M you when I get everything together.

Dolomite

[Ksmirk]

I'll just work on the 223 loading for the time being I'm thinking the M1 carbine needs to find a new home and a Stevens 200 in 223 needs to replace it ;D I've got my LR rifles but nothing for these short range shots on deer! I'm used to 100 - 600 yard shot in western oklahoma now I'm in central oklahoma using long range rifles on shots of 50 yards :o messy is all I can say. Later,

Kirk

[dolomite_supafly]

I/M sent with load data.

Dolomite

[Ksmirk]

First off a huge thank you to dolomite_supafly for the load help! you have no idea how much help and advice I got and now a little knowledge to boot!! THANK YOU!

Got some HP-38 powder Wed. after work and some 55gr. Sierra 1365's did a little loading on Friday and a range trip, got my zero confirmed with my 55gr. V-Max p-dog loads and we to work on the reduced report loads, fella's I'll admit it took me some time to squeeze the trigger on the first round since I have never done anything with pistol powder in a rifle and have seen some nasty pictures do to the crazy pressure spikes and actions scattered so yes I was nervous to say the least! sent the first round downrange and I'll have to say I was laughing so hard when I saw the first hole appear in the target with hardly any report what so ever, I mean all I heard was the bullet crack without the boom ;D yes I was happy. I shot a few more rounds when the guy next to me complimented me on my fine 22 rifle? huh I ask him, he said I must have a small fourtune in a Savage rifle converted over to 22LR! I felt bad but I started laughing and told him it was a 223, he called BS so I showed him and he just could not believe that a 223 could be that quiet! next thing I know I had a small croud gathered around me and a bunch of grown men laughing at the lack of report.

I put out a couple of Coke bottles filled with water just to check and while the full house V-Max exploded the bottle the HP-38 55gr GameKing bullet really spread the other bottle which really surprised me and the others that had gathered to watch this popgun shoot. I've attached a target and these rounds kept the same POI as my full house V-Max rounds, while they are not AS accurate they are a **** of a lot better than I had expected!

Again I must give out a huge thanks to dolomite_supafly for all his help and guidance!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/Ksmirk/001-2.jpg

Later,

Kirk

[dolomite_supafly]

How are the primers looking?

Are you going to be using a magazine to feed these? If not seat the bullets closer to the lands and it should tighten up those groups more. On my gun the difference between standard length and at the lands is about a 3/4" difference in group size. Same ammo, same loading session, everything is the same except seating depth and the closer to the lands the smaller the group.

Where you able to verify the velocities using the chrono?

Something else you might check if you can is muzzle flash at night. I had some loads for the 30 cal that NO flash at all. This may be the case with this load also because all the powder is burned within the first 2" of the barrel. All you need to do now is get a can to have it "Hollywood" quiet. ;D

What distance are those groups? If that is at 100 then those are very good, even at 50 those are definately going to be able to do what you want. Looks like you have a winner that should keep some of the heat off of you by your neighbors, crappy neighbors can make your life miserable.

And as always if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Dolomite