Wrong gauges (NOT WRONG AFTER ALL) UPDATE

[CAPTBEACH]

I have what I believe to be a set of Clymer .308 HS gauges that came with a .308 barrel I bought online at AR15.COM

Both are flat black and are clearly go (green)and no go (red)

What perplexes me is that there are no markings on them.

Go OAL is 1.656"

No Go OAL is 1.666"

The shoulder on the gauges doesnt seem right either...

Do I have the correct gauges? Or are these for something else?

Capt Beach

[stangfish]

A picture would help but it sounds as if you have a set of Gauges that E.R. Shaw sends out with their barrel kits. These gauges use a datum point that is calculated for a certain diameter and do not use the cartridge angle to locate the headspace. I hope that I conveyed my thoughts clearly.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/stangfish/Gauges-Copy.jpg

[CAPTBEACH]

That's them...I've got an identical set...

When I head space (factory Savage Barrel) it according to how its supposed to be done, closed/locked on Go-Green, tight and not closing (bolt handle starts to rotate but does not go further than a 1/2" or so towards closed on NO-GO Red...sounds like its head spaced right...then the new cartridge acts as if it were a NO GO gauge...any tips?

Capt Beach

[stangfish]

I am assuming you are using a fired case. Bump the shoulder back by adjusting your full length die. Use a Cartridge Headspace Gauge To verify your dimensions. It would be better to test with some factory loaded ammo and if you use FL dies, adjust your dies where it barely touches the shoulder ie....001 or .002 back. There is no substitute for properly sized brass.

[CAPTBEACH]

New Federal brass FL re-sized and then loaded to 2.805" OAL????? Should duplicate a factory Federal load, shouldnt it?

[stangfish]

I am assuming that one you have tried factory loaded ammo and it does not work and two you have double checked your barrel headspace and three you case has been restored to nominal length.

Try an empty case that has been FL sized. If the bolt still does not close correctly then check to see if your case holder and your die are making contact (face to face) when you have the press ram maxed out (case fully inserted into the die), the empty case should go unless the die has been machined incorrectly. Once you have ruled out die adjustment and barrel headspace, you need to get yourself a case headspace gauge to determine if you die was machined correctly(rare but does happen).

this(RCBS)
http://fundlie.info/img.php?fl=p5o4l4g403v2p256w4w4p2n4g4t5c4q594m506o 5h4k4h414b4o4h434m4y5i5x5d4f4g516q2y5r50606r2h4z3x 203z264x233u2s223e5y204i4t5p5

or this(Hornady)
http://images1.bushnelloptics.com/180-180-ffffff/opplanet-stoney-point-head-shoulders-cartridge-headspace-gauge.png

[barrel-nut]

I am assuming that one you have tried factory loaded ammo and it does not work and two you have double checked your barrel headspace and three you case has been restored to nominal length.

Try an empty case that has been FL sized. If the bolt still does not close correctly then check to see if your case holder and your die are making contact (face to face) when you have the press ram maxed out (case fully inserted into the die), the empty case should go unless the die has been machined incorrectly. Once you have ruled out die adjustment and barrel headspace, you need to get yourself a case headspace gauge to determine if you die was machined correctly(rare but does happen).

this(RCBS)
http://fundlie.info/img.php?fl=p5o4l4g403v2p256w4w4p2n4g4t5c4q594m506o 5h4k4h414b4o4h434m4y5i5x5d4f4g516q2y5r50606r2h4z3x 203z264x233u2s223e5y204i4t5p5

or this(Hornady)
http://images1.bushnelloptics.com/180-180-ffffff/opplanet-stoney-point-head-shoulders-cartridge-headspace-gauge.png


+1 on all of this
++1 on the RCBS precision mic

[gotcha]

Chk. your loaded round & see if it's contacting the rifling. Bullets have different ogive designs. Same weight but different style bullet could be contacting rifling higher up on ogive. I have a die that wouldn't fully size a case on a go-gauged chamber. As a last resort, you can sometimes add a piece of .002" scotch tape to the bottom of the go-gauge, re-HD SP then add a second layer of tape for the no-go. This may give you just enough extra room in the chamber to allow your die to work properly. I've had F/L dies that sized too short & one that sized not quite enough (.0015" too long) I'm beginning to think that out of spec dies aren't all that rare.

[barrel-nut]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please! Can't we just be friends here?!? ???

[CAPTBEACH]

Pretty sure my Gauges are OK, as is my head spacing...I suspect something is amiss with my reloads. Dimensionally they check out...but...

OK...bought a new box of FGMM in 168 (didnt have the 175's I like) all 20 rounds chamber flawlessly with a little (very little) resistance on the last 1/4"-1/2" of so of bolt handle down stroke...so pretty sure I'm head spaced correctly.

I bought some plastic boxes the other day to store the ammo in...72 rounds total loaded gives me 3 1/2 boxes loaded.

I pulled 10 rounds randomly from each box to chamber check.

Box 1, of the 10, 5 would chamber somewhat, there was resistance in the entire downward stroke of the bolt handle but they would technically chamber but I am suspect of them dimensionally. 5 would not chamber whatsoever acting as if they were NO-GO Gauges

Box 2, 9 NO-GO and 1 would chamber but similar to the rounds in box 1

Box 3, 6 NO-GO and 4 would chamber, 2 as in box 1, hard to chamber requiring more force than necessary to close bolt. and 2 would chamber "almost normally" not quite as good as factory ammo but not as much force as the round in box 1.

Probably need to get a bullet puller and full length re-size all of them over again...I hate de-capping live primers...

Capt Beach

[Handloader]

Probably need to get a bullet puller and full length re-size all of them over again...I hate de-capping live primers...

Capt Beach

Why deprime them???? I had to re-size a batch of 308 that the shoulders were still too long. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, and resized the case. Just REMOVE the depriming pin from the sizing die.

[barrel-nut]

Capt. Beach, sorry to hear this is giving you trouble. From what you described earlier, i agree that your rifles' headspace is probably correct.

It sounds like you are very close, you just need to tweak your FL die setting a little bit. Understand that there is some range of adjustment in the setting of your die: unscrewing it slightly(up) from the press will give you a sized case with longer headspace dimensions, assuming it (the case) was long to begin with. Conversely, screwing the die in (down) will, to a point, give you a case with shorter headspace. This seems to be what you need to do.

Try this: take a piece of once- fired brass, and try it in your chamber. If it fits, set it aside and try another one. You want to find one that does not fit (headspace is too long). When you find one, lube it and run it through your FL resizer. Wipe the lube off and try to chamber it again; chances are from what you describe, it either will not close or will at least be tight. This is OK.
Now, loosen the locking ring on your die WITHOUT moving the position of the die. Then screw in (down, or clockwise) on the die about 1/16 of a turn. Cinch down the locking ring and retighten. Now take that same piece of brass that would not fit earlier, and lube it and resize it again. Wipe off the lube, and try it in the chamber again. If it closes with no resistance, you've got it; tighten everything securely and commence reloading. If it won't close, repeat this process until either the bolt closes, or the press will no longer cam over at the top of the stroke. If you reach this point and it still won't chamber, then chances are your headspace is set too tight. I really don't think you'll reach this point though; once or twice on the adjustments and you'll probably be there.

Sorry for being so wordy, just trying to be thorough. Good luck and let me know if it works for you.

Fred

[CAPTBEACH]

I will remove the de-capping pin...forgot I could do that...just getting back into reloading after 15 years of absence...and while I am a fairly proficient armorer (USMC 2111-2112, Glock) it has been a while since i was working on bolt guns...especially Savages...

I'll try some of the above...

But first...couldn't it be case OAL too long as well? With the case head spacing first on the case neck rim in the chamber, vs the shoulder? I'll check case OAL first on a few cartridge cases...this was NEW UNFIRED FEDERAL brass.

[Handloader]

Sure it could be the cases are too long (trim length). I always full length size new brass and trim to min. specs. As barrel-nut suggested, find a piece of brass that will not chamber, and adjust the sizing die until the brass will chamber. Then lock in your die and goe to work. Your die is now set for YOUR rifle. Run all your brass, trim to length, and tumble to get the case lube off.......Good luck

[stangfish]

There you go capt ;D

[barrel-nut]

CAPTBEACH, did you ever get this situation resolved?

[stangfish]

If I read his post correctly, my understanding was he did not have his dies set up for correct shoulder length.