Help with a build 338 rum or edge?

[macds]

So if it will eject over 4", then the feed from the mag is an issue...
If you use the rum baffle, or notch the front, this becomes a non issue so long as the mag can contain and feed the round?

Stu

[geargrinder]

Correct, the ejection port is not a restraining factor. Just the mag opening. It's constrained in the rear by the action screw and the front by the lower lug abutment.

Once you get the mag opening large enough, you've got to rig a magazine to hold the long round. Then you have to fix it to the stock so it feeds correctly.

[macds]

And this is where 338 sin shines, as it can be fed from a std. long action?
Man it would sure be nice to feed it big factory load without a lot of work... but then thats what everyone would do :)
Looks like I have more reading :)
Just for quick reference, what does the sin have on factory 338 rum? Ill be looking it up, but you guys have actual experience with it... 28-30" bbl?

Thanks

Stu

[mtang45]

Very interesting discussion. I too have been contemplating a Savage 338 build and this has been enlightening. Looking forward to hear more about the 338 Sin.

[officejet]

I guess what is not clear to me is the intended use for this rifle. A RUM, Edge, Lapua or 340 WM is foolish in any barrel less than 30" actually better in 34" or more.
If you want a "33", for many applications a 338 Federal in a light Kimber 22" OR a 338 Winchester in a 24" barrel rifle will do the job for 100% of hunting. If you want to shoot gongs at 1000-2000 yards, that's another story. (I won't get into "long range hunting" as it's a no win debate).
A Savage match action is more rigid than any open top. A 34" 3 groove nitrided barrel will shoot faster and last much longer and a $3400 scope brings it all together, if you need that capability. If not: "if you can't get it done with a 30-06 etc."

[geargrinder]

I guess what is not clear to me is the intended use for this rifle. A RUM, Edge, Lapua or 340 WM is foolish in any barrel less than 30" actually better in 34" or more.
If you want a "33", for many applications a 338 Federal in a light Kimber 22" OR a 338 Winchester in a 24" barrel rifle will do the job for 100% of hunting. If you want to shoot gongs at 1000-2000 yards, that's another story. (I won't get into "long range hunting" as it's a no win debate).
A Savage match action is more rigid than any open top. A 34" 3 groove nitrided barrel will shoot faster and last much longer and a $3400 scope brings it all together, if you need that capability. If not: "if you can't get it done with a 30-06 etc."


I'll disagree. My buddies 28" barrel shoots very well and doesn't leave a considerable amount of velocity over the 32" barrel I had. It all depends on where your accuracy node is. My buddy got his accuracy at a higher pressure, I had to back mine off a bit to get the same velocity.

A Yugo will get you to work, but to most people, they want something just because they want it. Need, is usually a secondary factor.

It's all just my opinion, and you know what everyone says about opinions. ::)

[jc]

I guess what is not clear to me is the intended use for this rifle. A RUM, Edge, Lapua or 340 WM is foolish in any barrel less than 30" actually better in 34" or more.
If you want a "33", for many applications a 338 Federal in a light Kimber 22" OR a 338 Winchester in a 24" barrel rifle will do the job for 100% of hunting. If you want to shoot gongs at 1000-2000 yards, that's another story. (I won't get into "long range hunting" as it's a no win debate).
A Savage match action is more rigid than any open top. A 34" 3 groove nitrided barrel will shoot faster and last much longer and a $3400 scope brings it all together, if you need that capability. If not: "if you can't get it done with a 30-06 etc."

You may want to read this and get some hard facts before making such a bold statment. http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/bullets_ballastics/long_barrel_velocity.htm
Barrel length does not make as big of a diference as most people think. The whole 50fps per inch is usualy bunk. My edge is getting 2800 fps with 300gr smks out of a 29" mcgowan. My buddy is shooting the same basic load and getting 2800 out of a 26".

[efm77]

"Then you have to fix it to the stock so it feeds correctly."
Yes if you're talking about a staggerfeed mag. Shouldn't have to with the centerfeeds as they're already fixed in the stock and not attached to the action. You should just be able to cut out a notch in the front for the bullets to stick through. I haven't tried this yet but plan to and wonder if the rounds would slide forward during recoil too far and make the bullet catch under the feed ramp.

"The left port load is plenty fast enough as this is not a "running jackrabbit rifle"."

True, which is why I have thought of just running mine as a single shot instead of all the fuss with the magazine. Haven't made up my mind yet.

By the way, Merry Christmas everybody!

[geargrinder]

Yes if you're talking about a staggerfeed mag. Shouldn't have to with the centerfeeds as they're already fixed in the stock and not attached to the action. You should just be able to cut out a notch in the front for the bullets to stick through. I haven't tried this yet but plan to and wonder if the rounds would slide forward during recoil too far and make the bullet catch under the feed ramp.

"The left port load is plenty fast enough as this is not a "running jackrabbit rifle"."

True, which is why I have thought of just running mine as a single shot instead of all the fuss with the magazine. Haven't made up my mind yet.

By the way, Merry Christmas everybody!



You will have to fix it to the stock, because to get the most room, you'll have to ditch the "L" clip to move the magazine back in the mag well. And, as stated, the notch in the front for the bullets. Nothing left to hold the magazine in.

I had to put a small radius on the front of the mag opening to keep the bullets from catching on the feed ramp. You really have to be careful here because it is directly behind the lower lug abutment. You want to keep as much metal there as possible.

[dcloco]

I guess what is not clear to me is the intended use for this rifle. A RUM, Edge, Lapua or 340 WM is foolish in any barrel less than 30" actually better in 34" or more.
If you want a "33", for many applications a 338 Federal in a light Kimber 22" OR a 338 Winchester in a 24" barrel rifle will do the job for 100% of hunting. If you want to shoot gongs at 1000-2000 yards, that's another story. (I won't get into "long range hunting" as it's a no win debate).
A Savage match action is more rigid than any open top. A 34" 3 groove nitrided barrel will shoot faster and last much longer and a $3400 scope brings it all together, if you need that capability. If not: "if you can't get it done with a 30-06 etc."

You may want to read this and get some hard facts before making such a bold statment. http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/bullets_ballastics/long_barrel_velocity.htm
Barrel length does not make as big of a diference as most people think. The whole 50fps per inch is usualy bunk. My edge is getting 2800 fps with 300gr smks out of a 29" mcgowan. My buddy is shooting the same basic load and getting 2800 out of a 26".



Actually, no....it has more to do with what the actually land and groove measurement is. I built two, exact rifles, with the same barrels, from the same manufacturer. One barrel is almost 100 fps faster than the other....with the SAME load.

[jc]

My point exactly. Many other factors come into play other that barrel length.
So as to not hijack the post from the OP here is the info on my edge repeater using accurate mags, mags
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/338-edge-savage-finished-68313/

[efm77]

"You will have to fix it to the stock, because to get the most room, you'll have to ditch the "L" clip to move the magazine back in the mag well. And, as stated, the notch in the front for the bullets. Nothing left to hold the magazine in.

I had to put a small radius on the front of the mag opening to keep the bullets from catching on the feed ramp. You really have to be careful here because it is directly behind the lower lug abutment. You want to keep as much metal there as possible."

I must be missing something here because in my centerfeed action it doesn't look like the cag will have to be moved back. Now I haven't tried a RUM round in it but I have tested a 300 Weatherby which should be very close to the same COAL and it will actually squeeze into the magazine. The nose of the bullet is rubbing the front though so it won't come up unless I were to cut out a notch in the front of the box. There's a gap between the front of the mag box and the feed ramp that will allow enough clearance for the bullet so shouldn't require doing anything to the feed ramp. Now with very heavy 338 bullets it might be an issue but it looks like most rounds should fit. At least in my action it appears that way. I'll try to get a picture of it and post it. Not arguing, mind you, just telling what I've observed and trying to understand more myself. If I have to do any altering to the action, I'd just as soon use it as a single shot as it would be much less trouble. Wanting to also use it as a hunting rifle though makes me want it to be a repeater.

[jc]

"You will have to fix it to the stock, because to get the most room, you'll have to ditch the "L" clip to move the magazine back in the mag well. And, as stated, the notch in the front for the bullets. Nothing left to hold the magazine in.

I had to put a small radius on the front of the mag opening to keep the bullets from catching on the feed ramp. You really have to be careful here because it is directly behind the lower lug abutment. You want to keep as much metal there as possible."

I must be missing something here because in my centerfeed action it doesn't look like the cag will have to be moved back. Now I haven't tried a RUM round in it but I have tested a 300 Weatherby which should be very close to the same COAL and it will actually squeeze into the magazine. The nose of the bullet is rubbing the front though so it won't come up unless I were to cut out a notch in the front of the box. There's a gap
between the front of the mag box and the feed ramp that will allow enough clearance for the bullet so
shouldn't require doing anything to the feed ramp. Now with very heavy 338 bullets it might be an issue but it
looks like most rounds should fit. At least in my action it appears that way. I'll try to get a picture of it and
post it. Not arguing, mind you, just telling what I've observed and trying to understand more myself. If I
have to do any altering to the action, I'd just as soon use it as a single shot as it would be much less trouble.
Wanting to also use it as a hunting rifle though makes me want it to be a repeater.

That is exactly what my brother did in order to run 240gr smks in his 300rum. It works perfectly. His action is a center feed stevens that started as a 7mm rem mag. He did not have to notch the ramp. He gets 2 rounds
in the mag.

[efm77]

jc did your brother have any trouble with the rounds wanting to slide out of the opening he made in the front of the magazine during recoil or did it feed fine?

[jc]

No trouble so far he has about 150 rounds through it. His rifle weights about 13lb and has a good brake so recoil is pretty slight.

[officejet]

My point exactly, a three groove nitrided 34" barrel will be a LOT faster than any factory barrel, and needs no silly brake to tame the recoil (14 pounds) and shatter your ears.

The idea of 338 Lapua or RUM as a "walkabout" rifle makes about as much sense as a B52 for a crop duster.

The reason for either cartridge begins at 1000 yards for people or target killing. For an ethical hunter, a 338 Win Mag or 375 H&H will handle anything in North America and come in at about 9 pounds w/a 24" barrel.