What makes a Die a high end Die?

[Nandy]

ok, shouldn't my $27.00 rcbs bullet seating die always seat my bullet at the same dept? What makes those high dollars dies better than the cheap ones? I see some have a "micrometer" so you can change the seating depth easier and more accurate but other than that...

[seanhagerty]

Some fan boys will be along to tell you why "their" brand of dies are sooo much better. I dont think there is a huge amount of difference in one brand over another.

Really, it boils down to consistency. In both seating depth, and concentricity.

Seating depth consistency is NOT to the tip of the bullet, it is to the ogive, where the bullet engages the lands.

Concentricity is not something I have played with a lot.

RCBS will grind you a seating stem to match the shape of the bullet you use. It will make your die even more better in both these areas. Call their customer service to find out about getting this done. I think it was like an additional 30 bucks, and you have to send them three bullets. (You get the bullets back with the seating stem.)

Sean

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Just as easy to drill the center of the stem deeper. Works good on the VLD bullets. The micro top lets you change the seating depth by thousands. Helps if you're really into accuracy.
And all bullets arn't the same so that adjustment isn't the same for each bullet.
Nothing wrong with RCBS. ;)

[Nandy]

I do measure my bullets at the ogive with the Stoney adapter I have for my caliper. So, you are telling me that the bullet seater actually pushes the bullet in place by the tip and not the ogive (which was what I thougt and made sense to me..)??? Wouldnt that deform the bullet specially if you are using soft points?

[seanhagerty]

The seater stem has a hollow spot in it for the tip to slide into. Then the stem pushes the bullet from somewhere farther down on the bullet.

Thats why you might have slight variances in OAL. The bullets arent all shaped exactly the same, so some may be a bit longer or shorter than others.

Sean

[Nor Cal Mikie]

That's why you take seating measurements of "all" your different bullets.
No two are alike. That also means a difference at the target.
Open a box of new bullets. Are the "tips" still nice and sharp? Not likely. That's why you try to measure off the ogive. No deformed tips to deal with. ;)

[GaCop]

I've seen base to tip measurements of a certain companies "match" bullets vary in length up to .005".

[lal357]

i like the rcbs gold metal bushing dies ,the reason i use bushing dies is if you measure the thickness of various cases (lapua,win,hornady ect) you will find that they differ so i can keep the same neck tension on my bullets by using them. as for the micro seater dies its just easier for me if need to go down .003 for this load i just count the hash marks as i dial. i also sort by ogive,mesaure each powder drop and do case prep.are they worth it for me yes since i like to shoot little holes if i do my part. for hunting probably not now pistols are a different anilmal i run them thru a turret press with regular dies rifles get done in a single stage press.

[Trent]

I've seen base to tip measurements of a certain companies "match" bullets vary in length up to .005".


I recently had a box of 168gr Matchkings vary by up to .020". That startled me. And that was to the OGIVE! measured what I had left of the box of 500 and I found 3 distinct sets of lengths. Like there were 3 lots of bullets mixed in my box of 500. I did a tour of the Sierra factory shortly after that and he said that should definitely not happen. He said I should have sent them back. I would have, but I shoot Silhouette and I honestly couldn't detect any problems down range with them.

But yeah, if I was shooting paper it would have absolutely showed. Now I measure at least a handful of bullets out of a box and verify they are all the same. If I run across a mixed lot again it is going back.

[wander]

The real advantage of the more expensive seating die such as a Forster bench rest, redding competition, or wilson chamber type seater die is that the case is fully supported and the bullet is put into proper alignment before the bullet is seated. The Forster and redding use a sliding chamber sleeve inside the die and are used in a threaded press.....wilson dies use an arbor press...
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x403/wander6mmbr/Mobile%20Uploads/PART_1322180555605.jpg
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x403/wander6mmbr/Mobile%20Uploads/PART_1322179303949.jpg
The resizing process is where concentricity issues start......the best seating dies won't be able to fix bad case/neck concentricity......... but a bad seating die can make final bullet runout much worse....
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x403/wander6mmbr/Mobile%20Uploads/PART_1322179930011.jpg

[Nor Cal Mikie]

RCBS Compitition seater dies support the case the same way. The bullet is dropped through an window opening in the upper side of the die, into a sliding sleeve and into the neck of the case. No more pinching your fingers while trying to line up and hold the bullet in place berore you raise the press ram. 8)
RCBS is all I use for seaters. Each is modified by switching parts to fit each caliber I load for. ;)

[Luckus]

I am a big fan of the Forster seating die, they work as advertised. As far as standard run of the mill sizing dies by different manufactures, my experience has been its a crapshoot. I think they all make good ones and they all make bad ones. I have had no luck with bushing dies (others love them). I do like the Lee Collet die, no runout and no lube. My 2 cents worth.

[wander]

For the money Forster dies are hard to beat. the resizing die has the expander button located high in the die where there is better case support. I have found when checking the expander assembly on the concentricity gauge they have been more concentric than some other brands and designs.

I have found Bushing dies can work great or be a pain! I like to neckturn when not using the expander......also when required to size more than .005 it helps a lot to do it in two steps with.....first a larger bushing in a neck die then the final bushing in a FL die.....(sucks buying extra dies)

One trick I have found with some standard resizing dies that won't make concentric ammo is to take out the expander button when sizing and then expand it with an expander mandrel......

Any brand can put out good or bad dies.........the only way to know is check the final results

[Luckus]

The floating carbide expander that Redding makes is a real plus, Hornady makes a similar kit for use in RCBS dies that works the same. Their a little pricey but I think well worth it. They slide thru the necks much easier and self align to keep necks true.

[Nandy]

Very interesting read guys. Thanks!

[GaCop]

I am a big fan of the Forster seating die, they work as advertised. As far as standard run of the mill sizing dies by different manufactures, my experience has been its a crapshoot. I think they all make good ones and they all make bad ones. I have had no luck with bushing dies (others love them). I do like the Lee Collet die, no runout and no lube. My 2 cents worth.


+++1

[Joe O]

First used these dies when I loaded at a gun club in 1957.Found the guy tha still makes them.All my Varmint loads are now seated on this die.
http://www.gmwvickerman.com/

I believe,this was the first, window sating die.

[henry1]

Wow! His page is bookmarked now! That will most likely be where my next set comes from. Thanks for sharing!
Henry.