New loader need setup/component advise (25-06 & 7mm Rem)

[freak007]

A little story, then the questions ;)



I am a left handed shooter, several years ago I decided I wanted a new rifle in 6.5x55 Swede. I could not afford a Tikka (the only manufacturer who made a LH Swede), and I had always been pleased with Savages in the past, so I set out to build a Savage. I ordered a SS 22" McGowen #5 barrel with 8" twist and then began searching for a long action Savage I could part out. What I found was a NIB Pre-accutrigger 112 FVLSS in 25-06 (1:10 twist), I snapped it up for $390. Since the barrel was not due to arrive until after hunting season, I decided I would try out the new quarter-bore before parting it out... I tested every off the shelf ammunition I could find, and discovered that my new rifle was quite a shooter, and decided not to part it out :D. I was able to get consistent .5 to .75 MOA groups out of the Winchester 110 Accubond and Hornady 117 loads (both SST and Interlock). I eventually decided to use the Accubond due to more consistent MV (I had a SD of 11 with 10 rounds tested), as well as higher BC and lower cost. I bought 10 boxes of the lot number I was testing.



Fast forward 4 years, 15 whitetails and multiple target sessions - I am down to less than 2 boxes, and Winchester has discontinued the Accubond loading.



I knew when I decided to build a 6.5 Swede that I would have to start loading to realize the full potential of this cartridge. Winchester discontinuing the Accubond loading, combined with RCBS's $50 rebate has pushed me to order a RCBS Rock Chucker Deluxe Kit (which I have not yet recieved).



In the mean time, in continuing my quest for a donor action for my 6.5 barrel, I found another pre-accutrigger 112 FVLSS, this one chambered in 7mm Rem (also with the 26" barrel). Since I am planing a CO Elk hunt fall 2013 with a friend of mine, and this rifle is a twin to my 25-06 I decided I had to have it ($420), and I will not be parting it out unless I cannot get it to shoot OR I can find/afford a more suitable Elk rifle... The 6.5 quest continues, and now Savage is chambering 6.5x284... go figure







Now for the questions:



I would like to complete my reloading setup focusing on the 7mm and 25-06 for now, eventually I will be adding (in order?) 5.56mm, 6.5x55, .308, .243, 30-06, .270, .45 ACP, .44 Mag, and .9mm Luger.



I am a automotive technician by trade, so I have several sets of calipers and micrometers. I know for the rifles I will need a case trimmer, obviously I will need dies and shell holders - But what else will I need to purchase? What should I look for in dies?



Bullets - I have been satisfied with the performance of the Accubond in the 25-06. Fifteen shots have netted me fifteen dead deer from ranges of 10 to 417 yards. Every deer hit with this round has dropped in its tracks (even high lung shots), and always minimal meat damage (even when punching through a shoulder). If there was one thing I do not care for it would be the lack of external blood - If I was to ever need to track an animal hit with this round I would never find it because there is very little to no blood outside the chest cavity. Off the top of my head, other factory loads I have tested in this rifle are: 115 NBT, 100 TSX, 117 SGK, 115 Partition, 100 Core-lokt, 117 SST, and 117 Interlock. The only ones that I was satisfied with were the Hornadys and Accubond... I am concidering loading the Accubond, as well as Berger VLD and the Speer Deep Curl has caught my attention as well... I have not specified - But this has been my go to for Midwestern whitetails since I got it.



I have not even shot the 7mm yet, so I am not sure where to start with it. But I suspect the 9.25 twist will stabilize whatever I decide to shoot. I would like to work up a single load for white-tails (if meat damage can be minimized) as well my pending Elk hunt... I am leaning toward the 168 VLD and 162 A-Max, but I am not sure how well these will perform on whitetails. If I cannot get a single bullet for both, then suggestions for each would be appriciated...





Powder - If possible, I would like to try to find 1 powder that I can use for both rifles. I was thinking I would pick up a pound each of H4350, H4831SC, Retumbo and H1000 and seeing what I can come up with... I don't have my notes in front of me but the Accubonds are flying around 3100fps out of my 25-06, and based off of the load charts I have seen, any of these powders should get me there... Max velocity is not the goal, but I know the accubond is shooting well at 3100fps, so I figure that somewhere near there I will find my best accuracy...





Primers - Clueless here... No idea where to start, but obviously I want something consistant and dependable.... Again, I would like to minimize compontents and use something that will work well for both rifles...



Brass - I have a bunch of Winchester brass for the 25-06 (Any tricks to loading the nickle plated cases?), but nothing yet for the 7mm... Again, I am open to suggestions...







Any advise will be very much appreciated.





Thanks

[kslefty]

Reloader 22 is outstanding in the 25-06 with heavy bullets. Pretty sure it is one of the powders used for an accuracy load in my sierra manual with the 7 mag also. Buy the 5th edition sierra manual and start reading, in my opinion it is very well done.

[Grit #1]

READ READ READ. Get a Hornaday 3rd Addition, read Precision Shooting Mag. Handloader Mag. Get a Sinclair International catalog read it study it cover to cover. Call them, ask for Bob if you have questions, he is a seasoned benchresr shooter who loves to talk..
Best regards,
Grit

[big honkin jeep]

The Lee deluxe die set is what I use in nearly every caliber. (I have a few calibers they don"t make this set for) I like not having to use case lube with the collet die. The accuracy I get with fire formed brass from my rifles using these dies is second to none. I'll also second the reloader 22 for the 25-06 It is awesome with a 110gr accubond. This combo shoots great from a sporter barreled 22" 110 and a 24" 110fp I have. It really puts the lights out on everything I have shot with it from 40-260 yards.
good luck BHJ

[dcloco]

The 162 Amax will do perfect on a White Tail. Just shot a 275+ pound 6x5 Mulie last weekend at 225 yards with this bullet in my Savage 7 Rem Magnum. No exit and plenty of thump to take the bruiser down.

Although, the AMax is not designed as hunting bullet. It WILL do considerable damage on smaller deer.

[freak007]

READ READ READ. Get a Hornaday 3rd Addition, read Precision Shooting Mag. Handloader Mag. Get a Sinclair International catalog read it study it cover to cover. Call them, ask for Bob if you have questions, he is a seasoned benchresr shooter who loves to talk..
Best regards,
Grit



Have been doing TONS of reading and research... I am now loking for experianced reloaders to help me before I actually get started...




The 162 Amax will do perfect on a White Tail. Just shot a 275+ pound 6x5 Mulie last weekend at 225 yards with this bullet in my Savage 7 Rem Magnum. No exit and plenty of thump to take the bruiser down.

Although, the AMax is not designed as hunting bullet. It WILL do considerable damage on smaller deer.

Yeah, it was not until early this morning as I was doing more research that I realized the A-Max was not designed as a game bullet... I have no doubt it will cleanly kill a whitetail, but I am looking for a dual purpose bullet, and I would not concider using it on Elk...

I recieved my RCBS kit yesterday... Read through the manual last night... Today I will probably get everything setup and read through it again...


I am almost set to start ordering components and dies, I think I will start with the 25-06 for now, and work on the 7mm later... I am leaning towards Redding Comp style dies, with Berger VLDs for the 25-06 and 160 Accubonds for the 7mm...

[keeki]

Both of those are easy to load for and use alot of the same powders. R-17,19,22,25, 4350,4831,H1000,7828,Retumbo all are good powders for both of those rounds and for a variety of bullet weights. For the 25-06 IMR4831 an R-17 are a must for my guns, but I have some great loads with 22 also.

[big honkin jeep]

Just my thoughts but with the on game performance I've had with the Accubonds in .257 I'd stick with them. they are very accurate with the right powder and hold together with the overbore magnum velocitys achieved with the 25-06. Many bullets are over driven past 2900-3000fps and behave more like varmint bullets, but not the Accubonds.
Just my .02

[keeki]

Agree with that. The NBT will definately come apart above 3400

[coonhunter70]

My 25-06 likes berger 115 bullets with H-4831, win brass and br-2 primers, three shots touching almost always @ 100yds when I'm on. For dies I use the Hornady custom grade about 40 bucks or so and a Lee collet die around $20.00. For 25-06 powders keeki just about named all the ones you would ever need. H-4831 may be the best one to start with for the 100gr. and heavier bullets my thoughts anyways. Also buy yourself a bullet comparator for measuring bullet seating depth I the ones from Hornady that attach to your calipers. This (your RCBS kit) is just the tip of the iceberg as they say, hope you have some extra dollars from time to time cause this where they will start going.

[freak007]

Ok,after much reading and research I think I have settled on a starting point for my 25-06...

Overall I have been very happy with the Accu-Bond, My only complaint has been a lack of external blood, but it has never been an issue because I am patient, I wait for my shot, and place them well. I am comfortable shooting this rifle out to 500 yards, and I use this rifle when I am hunting fields. This means I can shoot when the animal has no idea that something is awry... This has all combined to make external blood a non-issue because they have dropped in their tracks 15 times out of 15 shots. Only one has flinched, and that was a buck I took this fall at 130 yards. He had just sensed me as I touched the trigger (I had been watching and deciding if I wanted to take him for 30 minutes)... He jumped once, kicked a couple times and was done.


I am going to replace the trigger and recoil lug, add a "bolt lift kit", and bed the action in the factory tupperware. I figure I will then shoot a couple groups using the factory winchester ammo as a "baseline" before starting to develop my own loads...

I will continue to use the Accu-Bond, and I will try both H4831SC and H1000. I am thinking 210M primers to start with... For dies I am leaning to the Forster Ultra series. I will be adding a LE Wilson case trimmer and a powder trickler (Redding?) to my set also.

I will use the OAL from the Winchester factory loads as a starting point, and use the "optimal charge weight" method of load development. Once everything is said and done I would LOVE to be able to shoot consistant .3s @ 3100+ FPS... but we will see if that is possible ;)


Thoughts welcome :D

[GaCop]

You may also want to consider the Hornady Over All Length Gauge with correct caliber collet for the calibers you load. With it, You will know the max length to the lands for each bullet weight you load.

You will love the Forester dies. I use them for all my bench rest loading.

[Sundo]

I'm getting started in reloading also. After my own research I decided to get a complete set of Lee dies for .30-06. For powders, I'm trying to get the Ramshot brand. The few people who have tried Ramshot powders say it's accurate, clean burning, and meters very well. Ramshot is hard to find off the shelf, though.

What are the specs on your 6.5 Swede barrel? I originally bought my Savage 116 to be rebarreled to 6.5 Swede. I'm in the process of checking out the accuracy in .30-06 before I order a 6.5 Swede barrel.

[freak007]

I'm getting started in reloading also. After my own research I decided to get a complete set of Lee dies for .30-06. For powders, I'm trying to get the Ramshot brand. The few people who have tried Ramshot powders say it's accurate, clean burning, and meters very well. Ramshot is hard to find off the shelf, though.

What are the specs on your 6.5 Swede barrel? I originally bought my Savage 116 to be rebarreled to 6.5 Swede. I'm in the process of checking out the accuracy in .30-06 before I order a 6.5 Swede barrel.


I choose Hodgdon powders for the reports of temp stability and lot to lot consistancy. It is also easily availible locally.

I went with a stainless 22" McGowen with a #5 profile (varmint) with 8" twist. I picked the 8" twist and had it throated for the longer 140gr bullets I intend to use. I chose 22" because it is long enough to work well with the 6.5 Swede, and still short enough to be stiff, especially when combined with the varmint profile. When I finally get it put together it should make for a pretty sweet rifle... Although now with the 6.5x284 being a factory chambered round, I am not sure if I see the reason in building a 6.5x55 (other than I aready have the barrel)...



You may also want to consider the Hornady Over All Length Gauge with correct caliber collet for the calibers you load. With it, You will know the max length to the lands for each bullet weight you load.

You will love the Forester dies. I use them for all my bench rest loading.


Yeah, I forgot to mention I was also ordering the Hornady Comparator and OAL gauges...

A couple things I have not figured out...


What shell holder to use with the Forster dies? Forster says to use the shell holders suggested by the press manufacturer, and RCBS says to use the shell holder reccomended by the die manufacturer...

What brass? Do I stick with the once fired nickle coated Winchester I have (I have around 50 to 70 pieces of this left)? Or do I go ahead and buy new brass? I will be FL sizing (for now anyway) and when I swap the recoil lug I will be setting headspace to SAAMI minimum anyway...

Trgger? SSS? Sav-2? others?

[stumpjumper400]

It sounds like you have a good plan of attack to accomplish all of this. Me being a Swede shooter, I'll always go that route. It is an easy cartridge to load for with the powders you probably have. r22 is my goto powder for 140's. The only problem I see is the short length barrel you have. To see the real potential of the swede, you really need about 4 more inches of barrel. That cartridge likes magnum slow powders and takes a little more barrel to burn them. Many people shoot the shorter barrels and they do fine just a little slower. Brass is alot cheaper for the swede than is the 6.5x284 of you're buying Lapua.

Steve

[GaCop]

I'm getting started in reloading also. After my own research I decided to get a complete set of Lee dies for .30-06. For powders, I'm trying to get the Ramshot brand. The few people who have tried Ramshot powders say it's accurate, clean burning, and meters very well. Ramshot is hard to find off the shelf, though.

What are the specs on your 6.5 Swede barrel? I originally bought my Savage 116 to be rebarreled to 6.5 Swede. I'm in the process of checking out the accuracy in .30-06 before I order a 6.5 Swede barrel.


I choose Hodgdon powders for the reports of temp stability and lot to lot consistancy. It is also easily availible locally.

I went with a stainless 22" McGowen with a #5 profile (varmint) with 8" twist. I picked the 8" twist and had it throated for the longer 140gr bullets I intend to use. I chose 22" because it is long enough to work well with the 6.5 Swede, and still short enough to be stiff, especially when combined with the varmint profile. When I finally get it put together it should make for a pretty sweet rifle... Although now with the 6.5x284 being a factory chambered round, I am not sure if I see the reason in building a 6.5x55 (other than I aready have the barrel)...



You may also want to consider the Hornady Over All Length Gauge with correct caliber collet for the calibers you load. With it, You will know the max length to the lands for each bullet weight you load.

You will love the Forester dies. I use them for all my bench rest loading.


Yeah, I forgot to mention I was also ordering the Hornady Comparator and OAL gauges...

A couple things I have not figured out...


What shell holder to use with the Forster dies? Forster says to use the shell holders suggested by the press manufacturer, and RCBS says to use the shell holder reccomended by the die manufacturer...

What brass? Do I stick with the once fired nickle coated Winchester I have (I have around 50 to 70 pieces of this left)? Or do I go ahead and buy new brass? I will be FL sizing (for now anyway) and when I swap the recoil lug I will be setting headspace to SAAMI minimum anyway...

Trgger? SSS? Sav-2? others?


Nothing wrong with using the RCBS shell holder. I like them because they're not as thick as the Lee's and allow better shoulder bump when the case needs full length sizing. My #3 RCBS is .249" thick to the rim and the Lee is .252".

You can't go wrong with an SSS trigger. The Rifle Basix is a good one too.

I'm not a fan of plated brass. It's harder on the dies and it's next to impossible to tell if a case is developing an insipient separation being hidden under the plating.

[Txhillbilly]

I shoot a lot of the 115gr Nosler C/T 115gr ballistic tips out of my 25/06,as well as the 115gr Berger VLD's.My best loads are with Reloader 19 for these bullets.
I have good reults with Reloader 22&19,H4350,H4831,and the IMR versions also.Varget even works pretty good on some loads for the 25/06.

[big honkin jeep]

RL22, Reloader 22, or Alliant Reloader22 whatever you want to call it. I just call it magic in the 25-06

[freak007]

Okay here we go....

Gunshack got my order for the SSS recoil lug and Comp trigger

Midway will be sending me my Forster dies and headspace gauges, LE Wilson case trimmer, Hornady Comparator, .257 Accubonds, and Devcon

I may even have found a source for NORMA 25-06 Brass ;) I ordered 100 just for giggles... we will see if they actually have it or not

Primers and powder I will get locally...


Now the waiting part...



I am pretty excited to see what I can actually wring out of this thing :D

[jsthntn247]

I have never seen a 7mag that wouldn't shoot 65 grains of Re22 and 150 Nosler BT's loaded to 3.290 under an inch. I've tried it in a bunch of them too.