.308 and 180gr for Whitetail

[Hair_Boxers]

Hey Guys -

Just got my 11 in .308. Used to shoot my trusty Rem 870 with a slug barrel, but my wife nicely upgraded me this year (11 FCNS w/ VX-III 1.75-6).

Most, if not all, of my shots will be within 50-75 yards in heavily wooded areas (hunt SW WI).

I am thinking that I want to shoot 180gr bullets (lead free ideally, thinking Barnes TTSX). Anybody have experience working up loads for a .308 with that bullet? Hard to find anything above 168gr for .308 on most shelves or even online and it gets harder when I start thinking about lead free.

Thanks!

--Tim

[davemuzz]

Tim,

I've shot a lot of whittail's in my day with the .308. Mostly with 150gr. bullets and those bullets would pretty much drop 'em with one shot unless I didn't give 'em a good shot. If most of your shots are under 100 yards (Like here in Pa.) then a 150 will do ya just fine. If your gonna load up a Barnes Triple X, then the 120gr. Barnes will do ya real fine.

For powder.....I've loaded a boatload of different one's and no matter what, I've always come back to Varget for the .308.

That's been my experience. Find a bullet your .308 likes. You won't need more than the 168gr. Use Varget. Shoot to find your powder charge and OAL.....then go hunt.

Dave

[darkker]

I generally agree with Dave.
I shoot 200 yards out here in the west routinely at Mule deer, and 165's are PLENTY. When I lived in Idaho and was shooting little Whitetails, the 150's were perfectly fine at 150 yards(long shot over there).
My $0.02 is, GENERALLY speaking, the heavier bullets are "harder" to open, and they may not expend alot of energy on those little deer. Especially with Barnes(leadless), I shot a whitey with a 165 X bullet, and it certainly didn't open much on that deer... FWIW.
As you have a savage, probably you have a gun with a longer than "normal" throat. Get a impact bullet puller, and see what touches, for an OAL. I have always had very good luck, with all bullets at a 1/32" jump to the lands. Personally I REALLY like Win 748 for the 308. Much less tempremental when loading for me...

[handirifle]

Keep in mind when using lead free (a MUST here in CA) that typically you can go lighter that normal, and like was said, the 180's will open slower than the TSX 150 or even 130.

Heck, if all your shots are going to be under 100yds, I'd even look at the 150gr meant for the levergun. It is a flat nosed hollow point, that will open at even lower velocities than the normal TSX bullets.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=388970

Even if you decide to go with std spire points, I would not go over a 150gr. You will not recover the bullets, unless you are loading them slow and shoot end to end. You might also look into the Nosler Etip, and the Hornady GMX, both are offered in 150gr for the 30 cal.

I used a 150gr Etip on my mulie last week, and at 180yds, I saw the bullet blow a big dust hole in the ground behind the deer. I thought I might have missed (cause I was shaking like a leaf with buck fever ;D) but when I started making circles toward the direction he ran I soon discovered fresh blood. I follow the blood trail for about 50yds and found him deader than a doorknob. The bullet took out both lungs and the liver. That was with only about 2600fps muzzle, and that leaves about 2290 (BC is .469 with this bullet) at 180. It is questionable, in fact, whether or not my bullet opened. Left fairly small holes both in and out, just slightly larger than caliber (308 also). VERY LITTLE meat damage with this load.

I load them right at .050" off the lands, like they recommend. Barnes recommends .030-.070" off the lands. Do NOT seat these non lead bullets close to the rifling, pressures will spike, and they will not be accurate. I did not have a chamber measuring device, so I just lightly resized a case, enough that the bullet just barely holds in place, and push it out long enough to touch rifling, then once that point is established, I back it off the .050". Some say they are even more accurate at .070 off.

That reminds me, I need to write Nosler and ask them about that.

[davemuzz]

Buck fever?....Heck....I'm 55 years old and I don't get that any more. ;D Just ask that great big Tom Turkey a few years back that was struttin at 30 yards when I pulled the trigger on my shotgun about "Buck Fever." I called him all the way across a 100+ yard field....and the closer he came...and every time he gobbled....the more my heart would pound. By the time I was ready to shoot....I think my hands were shakin so bad I missed him by a mile!!!

I pulled the trigger.....he started flying away (I use a single shot shotgun) and I said to myself...."He's flying pretty damn good for a bird that just got hit with a full load of #5 Hevi-shot." :-\ :-X ::) :D

[sniper15545]

I've Been shooting a 308 for 38 years and have killed "alot" of whitetails. I strongly recommend the 165 sierra hollow point boat tail. I've killed deer from 25 to 500 yards with these bullets and they do a excellent job for you.

[snowgetter1]

I am the only one out of a group of 8 that does not shoot a 308 with 180gr Remington Corelock. These guys drop al kinds of deer with them in their tracks at ranges under 100 yards.

[Balljoint]

Been looking for my notes on what i was using for the 30/06 with 180gr. boat tail pointed soft nose thinking it was 40gr. of IMR. 4895 i pretty sure that it as i know it will go through a three inch dia. tree take out the whole back end and still take down a six point buck will correct when i find my notes.

[Hair_Boxers]

Thanks for the great info guys.

The little bit of info about able to go lighter with lead-free is one I hadn't heard yet. Makes the 150gr or 168gr bullets that much more appealing.

I've taken a good number of deer off this property, and last year was my longest shot ever - 38 yards. I plan to hunt that same stand again this year so probably won't have the occasion to shoot over 50 yards, but there is a new spot I've been itching to try that puts me on a fence line with woods to one side and an open corn field on the other. I looked at the ballistics of 180gr vs 168gr out to 200 yards and it didn't seem like much of a difference so my gut was to go with the heavier bullet to be safe in the trees. Reconsidering that based on the opening up comments and good success with 150 and 168 by you guys.

Ultimately I believe I'll be able to work up very accurate loads with either bullet weight out of this gun. Just have to commit to one and start figuring up loads.

Any other thoughts you have are appreciated!

[handirifle]

I am the only one out of a group of 8 that does not shoot a 308 with 180gr Remington Corelock. These guys drop all kinds of deer with them in their tracks at ranges under 100 yards.


There is a WORLD of difference in the opening velocities of the TSX compared to a corelokt. If he were using the corelokt, in the 308, it would not be a concern. He would have plenty of bullet to take out shoulder(s), if needed, and not ever overexpand, or excessively destroy meat. The Benoit's of deer hunting fame, for decades, used 30-06's with 180gr round nosed bullets.

His question was about the TSX though, and the all copper offerings, sadly, do NOT open nearly as fast.

[Hair_Boxers]

Thanks Handirifle - what I am getting from that is that bonded lead bullets open quickly, so you can throw a big slug down range at a slower velocity and it works just fine. The all copper stuff expands slowly, so you need velocity to pop it open and let it do its work. Makes sense.

I've been using big slow all copper slugs in my 12ga with great success. Switching to a rifle is a whole new experience, and one that I am enjoying so far!

[handirifle]

HB
The 180 Accubond would be a good choice for what you desire. Here in Kalifornia, we HAVE to use the no lead, and sometimes it just plain sucks. REALLY limits bullet choices, and ALWAYS costs more.

[langenc]

As already pointed out a 180 is way to much for any deer esp at 75 yds. You hunt in about the same stuff we have here, usually less than 100 yds. We get these hunters that shoot their deer at 275 and up. I have always said that most of those shots are probably less than 135 yds.

When using Barnes go one weight lower as those 180s are BIG--(long) since copper is so light compared to lead. 150 Barnes probably to heavy. I think one poster suggested 120. Im goint to try some in my 243-weight, I dont know yet-probably 85 or so.

[handirifle]

The lightest Barnes in 30 cal is 110gr and for the 243 it's an 80gr. I have never seen or heard of anyone using the 110gr in 30 cal. It is a TTSX bullet. I have read of Barnes folks loading the 130gr in the 300WM at something like 3600fps or so and taking a lot of African plains game with it.

Personally, I have often wondered about loading my 308 with the 150gr TSX meant for leverguns, at slightly above 30-30 speeds. Low recoil, big hole, dead deer. I just know that when I do that, I will shoot under the biggest deer of my life cause he's out at 220yds and that bullet will drop like a rock, and of course I will forget that part....

[Hair_Boxers]

Ended up going with 168gr TTSX.

Worked well, but I think that I'll probably go with the 150gr or maybe even the 130gr next year. Don't think I was getting the expansion out of the 168 that I really want. Downed a big boy this morning with two shots. First was right in the vitals and went clear through. Second was high and hit his spine. Bullet tumbled and actually the back end poked through his skin with the petals keeping it from going all the way through. So now I get to see how much it opened. That said, just by feel, it doesn't seem like all that much.

Here is a pic (on Flickr) of the deer I shot.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluedogphoto/6367202367/in/photostream/lightbox/

Will post some pics of the bullet poking through and the actual bullet tomorrow.

[Werewolf]

Really nice deer! Congratulations!

[1Shot]

...I use Nos 165gr BT's with H4895 myself... DRT.. ;)

[davemuzz]

...I use Nos 165gr BT's with H4895 myself... DRT.. ;)


That 'll do it. ;D

[mytwo60]

When using barnes ttsx or tsx you want to go light as possible for deer size game. I use 130ttsx in my 300WM at 3700fps. Nothing and I mean nothing takes a step. I'm sure you can get around 3200fps with a 308.

[sniper15545]

I've been using a .308 for 40 yrs. Both for sport and work and cam tell you for deer I always use the sierra 165 gameking bthp and have taken deer out to 600 yds with no problems ever!!! I'm sure there are plenty of other bullets that will work but The sierra's are not overly expensivemand as I stated an excellent choice.