300wtf ejection problems

[sha-ul]

I know that Ejection issues have plagued Savage 110 rifles for many moons. I have finally had a chance to shoot the 300 whisper/ blackout/ 300/221/ 300fireball/ whatever...


anyway, when firing the first 20 rounds of factory Remington 300blk loads, it did not eject a single round. I had already ordered& installed the .140 detent ball on the extractor, I have since ordered& installed a new ejector spring& ejector, I filed the slot longer like shown here http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,15070.0.html
and this thing still will not eject.
Using dial calipers, (I didn't grab the ball gauge from the shed to get precise) the ejector hole measures .155 but I bet it was drilled with a 5/32 bit (.156) so with a .140 ball, I still have .015 slop in the ejection detent. how much is tolerable, or desirable?

at this point could this somehow be retrofitted with the blade type ejector like the CRF wssm bolts use? that way if you short stroke it, you could can grab the brass, but if hunting, you cycle vigorously& have a repeater.

other thoughts, or suggestions? metric ball bearing? use a 5/32 ball bearing, but lap the hole slightly larger first?

[sha-ul]

btw this is a long action.

[ellobo]

Pull the bolt and check to see if the ejector pin is actually free to move. If the extractor is grabbing the case and pullin it free of the chamber its a good bet the ejector pin is hung up and not protruding.

El Lobo

[sha-ul]

Pull the bolt and check to see if the ejector pin is actually free to move. If the extractor is grabbing the case and pulling it free of the chamber its a good bet the ejector pin is hung up and not protruding.

El Lobo

It extracts just fine, I just installed the new ejector plunger& spring tonight, as the Midway order arrived today.

[sha-ul]

Pull the bolt and check to see if the ejector pin is actually free to move. If the extractor is grabbing the case and pulling it free of the chamber its a good bet the ejector pin is hung up and not protruding.

El Lobo

It extracts just fine, I just installed the new ejector plunger& spring tonight, as the Midway order arrived today.


Extraction is fine, ejection is the problem.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/russell_smith93/smilies/tumbleweed.gif

[trappst]

You may need to remove more material at the notch on the ejector. It sounds like the case is being extracted but it's losing pressure against the raceway as it comes out.

By lengthening the notch in the ejector, you're increasing the pressure the case can put on the raceway. Thus, the case stays on the bolt head till it clears and can be tossed out.

It'll prolly be a trial and error type deal...remove a little at a time and test it out until you get reliable ejection.

[sha-ul]

You may need to remove more material at the notch on the ejector. It sounds like the case is being extracted but it's losing pressure against the raceway as it comes out.

By lengthening the notch in the ejector, you're increasing the pressure the case can put on the raceway. Thus, the case stays on the bolt head till it clears and can be tossed out.

It'll prolly be a trial and error type deal...remove a little at a time and test it out until you get reliable ejection.



If you look at this picture, that sharpshooter posted on the ejector thread http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/sharp-shooter/ejectorfix.jpg on the small end of the slot to the right, I have filed almost to where the bevel begins. any further& I will be losing material to retain it in place. ???

[trappst]

Dang it man! It could be possible that you went too far to begin with and now the spring doesn't haven enough force to hold the ejector against the case.

Are you certain you filed the correct end of the notch?

[sha-ul]

I used Sharpshooter's picture as the guide for what to do& where. the spring is brand new fresh out of the ziplock. & it is a bit longer than the original part.
the ejector was a little softer than I expected& the file took material off faster than I expected, but there is plenty tension on it.
the next step might be to make a longer plunger, or explore some other angle.

[Elkbane]

If you have adequate protrusion and spring pressure on the ejector pin and are satisfied that is not the cause, I'd start looking at the dimensions of the groove on the extractor. Was this the original extractor, or has it been replaced also?

Just thinking about the geometry of the extraction/ejection sequence, it sounds as if the extractor is slipping off the case rim before the case mouth clears the raceway. In simplicity, the ejector us pushing the bottom of the casehead from one side and the extractor is pulling it from the other side. While the case is in the chamber, the angle of deflection from the ejector is small, so it doesn't take much grip for the extractor to hold the case in place. As the case clears the chamber and the shoulder or case mouth rides on the raceways, the angle of delection increases and it takes both more pressure from the ejector and better grip from the extractor to maintain a "hold" on the cashead. Somehwere in that sequence, your bolt is loosing it's hold. If it's not the ejector, then it must be the extractor.

Slop in the detent ball could do that or wear on the inside upper surface of the extractor lip that engages the case head groove (effectively, the groove in the extractor is too shallow).

IMO, it will be quite a chore to mill out the action for a standing ejector. When I look at my WSM action, it's decidedly different from the ones without the standing ejector groove......
Elkbane

[handirifle]

I know that Ejection issues have plagued Savage 110 rifles for many moons.


You know I read this all the time, and I own Savage rifles that are new, and some older than 30 years. NEVER had a single ejection issue, maybe I'm lucky, I dunno. Hope yours gets figured out. Was this a factory rifle? A 300 whisper on a long action?

If not, I find it hard to blame the rifle, when it's been modified. Anytime I change calibers or anything else for that matter, on one of mine and an issue arises, it's traceable back to something I have done.

Not meaning to insult just to help narrow down the possible causes, but since this is a long action, was the bolt head changed out to a .378 head MEANT for a long action? I have never done that swap myself, but read of others here, saying there is a difference.

[sha-ul]

Please remember that for many years Savage made only long actions, I have a 110fp in .308, that I bought new in 1994 that is a long action. I have 2 long actions that were 223 originally, one still is, the other is now a 300wtf.
However ejection is a weak point in these rifles. at this point I think I have tried all the usual remedies, so I am looking for more ideas.

[Eric in NC]

Played with 300 Whisper and still have a 221 FB on 223 Savage actions - never got them to eject but I don't mind (just pluck the empty off of the follower). Of course if I was facing a massive "wave attack" of gophers, it might be a problem.

[sha-ul]

Played with 300 Whisper and still have a 221 FB on 223 Savage actions - never got them to eject but I don't mind (just pluck the empty off of the follower). Of course if I was facing a massive "wave attack" of gophers, it might be a problem.

I called Fred@ SSS & picked his brain a bit, He suggested to file the top of the ejector flat to remove the radius, changing the geometry & placing the contact point of the plunger closer to the center of the case. if this doesn't work, he has also made a mushroom headed ejector
these are tappets from a Cummins diesel& exaggerated for our purposes, but illustrate the concept. http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/images/ctdcrtappet.jpg the over-sized head again places the pivot point closer to the center allowing more travel.

[sha-ul]

I had a chance to work on the ejector a bit, and Fred was right, by shortening the plunger slightly,&removing the bevel on the end, you can increase the ejection angle& get the extractor to holds the case& reliably eject the spent case.

[hunter2]

The only thing I haven't tried is the mushroom head. Have had nothing else to work more than a few rounds. Good luck! Finally installed a single shot follower and think bad thoughts every time I try to eject one.. For such an excellent rifle the ejection part just plain stinks.

[sha-ul]

The only thing I haven't tried is the mushroom head. Have had nothing else to work more than a few rounds. Good luck! Finally installed a single shot follower and think bad thoughts every time I try to eject one.. For such an excellent rifle the ejection part just plain stinks.

Have you tried modifying the ejector? lengthening the slot (on the short end)& removing the bevel on the long end?

When I asked Fred about the cost of installing the mushroom ejector, which includes fabricating the new ejector. the cost is very, very reasonable.

[SuperChuck]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RBX15cAqVXI/T4tSE7rMQkI/AAAAAAAAAzE/D9PNyg2tunI/s800/Ejector%2520Pin%25202.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xH3PPaAMGpc/T4to-Y6UeKI/AAAAAAAAA0M/v8hkOfNye9o/s800/IMGP2048.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xeCE-M9SjCE/T4to8yzwKQI/AAAAAAAAA0M/YJ7xuD5te28/s800/IMGP2051.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QK1y39TJDek/T4to8eR0oOI/AAAAAAAAA0M/vPB_4x83c0c/s800/IMGP2054.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nAeCxJ6Cr_A/T4to5jDZ54I/AAAAAAAAA0M/ZZfS6-rzVqI/s800/IMGP2052.JPG

Here are some reference images, can you show what modifications you made?

[sha-ul]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/russell_smith93/forum%20source%20pics/EjectorPin2.jpg
look at the red circles

[SuperChuck]

Thanks,

Thats what I was imagining was being described, but a picture is worth a thousand words!

I did revise the drawings though, the case end is more radiused, while the spring and retainer end is beveled, in the close up photos you can see a distinct difference in the two tips.

Basically file down the radius more "flat" like so?



https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yscfIltKkUw/T4udc4-anNI/AAAAAAAAA0g/nRaFVZCQcXg/s800/Ejector%2520trim%2520locations.jpg





SC