Second trip to the range ....Savage 12BJTV .223 Rem

[heavybarrel]

I have narrowed it down to two powders. W748 and RL15. I am not there yet but showing good promise. Next trip out will be a ladder test with the powders listed above and 69 grain SMK bullets. First two targets are from the Savage test today. The "fly-paper target was fired from my Cooper model 38 .22 hornet. I came up with this load several years ago and it does very well in the cooper. (The hornet cartridge is a little harder to load for than many others) Just goes to show you what a good rifle the Cooper is. All groups are 5 shots. ALWAYS use a good loading manual and work up loads slowly and carefully. Don't just copy ANYBODY'S load data "Every rifle is different"..........Have a look ......Don in SC

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af36/tailingloop_pics/DSC01083.jpg

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af36/tailingloop_pics/DSC01086.jpg

[MaDa]

I envy anyone who can basically walk to the range with their target being on a post-it note. Good shooting.

[kschilling]

Don,
What a great start with your .223! RL 15 has always done very well in my .223 loads. I mainly focused my attention on 75 grain bullets. Looks like some of your shots went verticle on you, but still a good group. Did you check "bullet run out" on the loaded ammo prior to shooting? I'm working on some loads with Alliant's Power Pro 2000 now.....

[heavybarrel]

Thanks for the replies.............I am .015 off the lands. I kept the bullets and the seating depth the same for all 5 powders I tested. Two five shot groups with each powder. These showed the best promise. Next I am going to "fire-lap" the barrel (David Tubb) fire-lap bullets, then I will ladder test these two powders with both
69 SMK and 73 Berger BT target bullets. I believe I can find a load that will tighten-up the groups. Load development is enjoyable all by itself. I think the ole Savage will shoot just fine, once I find out what she likes.......{{ Please let me know how the "power pro 2000 works out }}.......Don in SC

[wbm]

Done a lot of fire lapping over the years and can't really say that it helps accuracy as much as it helps a barrel clean easier. Personally I would shoot that barrel for a bit before lapping.

[MrMajestic]

Any chance you tried Vihta Vouri N-140 or Varget? Curious how it ranked in your tests. Haven't found a .223 yet that hasn't liked one or the other with 69 grain plus bullets.

[heavybarrel]

I don't have anything to measure bullet runout......other than rolling them across a table and looking. I have about 150 + rounds through this barrel so far. I know fire lapping will make the barrel easier to clean.....I am hoping it will make it a little bit more consistant also. I didn't have any N-140 or Varget. I bought some RL 15 and already had the other four powders I tested with. I may try Varget at a later date. If the groups don't get much better.... I think I may bed the action (at a later date). It couldn't hurt. However, I feel sure this rifle is capable of "connecting-the-dots" if I do my part and find a good load. Thanks again everyone...
Don in SC

[dcloco]

My "go to" powder with 69 gr Sierra or Nosler bullets is H4895. Work up to this load though - 25.0 H4895, CCI450, and your pick of case. I seat these at 0.050 off the lands on factory barrels - seems to be the sweet spot on Savage barrels and a couple of AR15's.

[GaCop]

On the lighter bullet side, try the 52gr SMK over 25.6 grains of H4895. I seat the SMKs .003" OTL and have shot 20 rounds into .633" at 100 yards using RP brass and WSR primers. Velocity was 3250fps. Though this load is not hot in my rifle, I'd still work up to it.

Tom

[heavybarrel]

Thanks again for everyone's input..........I have tried IMR 4895 but not H4895. IMR 4895 did alright, but nothing great. I have been .012 OTL and have wondered if it may group better if the bullets had a little more jump. My .22-250 shoots better @ .045 OTL but my Ruger .223 shoots best when just touching. As far as the lighter bullets go, I tried 40 / 50 / and 55. (yet to test any 52 grain match bullets). Again groups were not bad, but nothing special. With a 1-9, I think the heavier bullets should do very well. Some Savage shooters seem to like the 75 grain match bullets best. So only time and "trial-by-fire" will tell. Anyhow, I am enjoying the hunt for the best-Load for my Savage. (BTW, I do believe in working loads up carefully) What is perfect for one rifle....can be poison for another........... Don in SC

[rjtfroggy]

My mod. 12 26" barrel 1:9 twist loves the Sierra 60grn. over 24.0 grn. IMR4895 seated at 2.221 oal. Almost to the point of boring almost always .225 and a few times .195 @100.
It took a long time and quite a few different loads to get to it to here, so go slow and enjoy.

[jhelmuth]

Heavy....

Have exact same rifle. PM'd you....


Love the BJTV!

[MrMajestic]

My 16 with a 1 in 9" just loves(1/2 MOA all day) the 75 grain A-Max in front of enough N-140 ignited by a 205M in a Lapua case to average 2980 fps from its 24' tube. The 68 grain Hornady HPBT groups a little better but I just can't ignore the A-Max's BC!

[jhelmuth]

Thanks for the replies.............I am .015 off the lands. I kept the bullets and the seating depth the same for all 5 powders I tested. Two five shot groups with each powder. These showed the best promise. Next I am going to "fire-lap" the barrel (David Tubb) fire-lap bullets, then I will ladder test these two powders with both
69 SMK and 73 Berger BT target bullets. I believe I can find a load that will tighten-up the groups. Load development is enjoyable all by itself. I think the ole Savage will shoot just fine, once I find out what she likes.......{{ Please let me know how the "power pro 2000 works out }}.......Don in SC


David Tubb concedes that fire lapping will increase the diameter of the barrel throat. Since many factory barrel throats are cut larger than they should be it is my opinion that while you may possibly improve accuracy momentarily by fire lapping your barrel, you also wipe out potentially thousands of rounds of throat life by further enlarging it using the fire lapping method.

[heavybarrel]

I decided to fire-lap because I can see (with a bore-scope) and feel the bore is a little rough. My plan is to use "half" of the bullets in the kit. I don't want excessive wear, but I feel it does need to be smoothed out a bit. Ten bullets of 5 different grits come in the kit, I am going to use 5 bullets from each grit. 25 rounds in all. According to the documentation that came with the kit......If I use all 50 bullets, I will have removed less than "three ten thousandths of an inch of metal with this process. (.0003) I am only going to use half the kit on this rifle, I doubt if I will do it any harm. I also plan on bedding the action when I get the time. I feel it may help and souldn't hurt anything................Don in SC

[pugsnotdrugs]

+1 on reloader 15 use it in 22-250 never had any issues of accuracy

[k80skeet]

Don I sent you a PM with what work best for me before I looked that you was shooting 24.7 of #748 in a couple of rifles worked better with 25.5 and 26.0 I didn't and that in the PM it all depends on if you can touch the lands. If you can't this may work better for you. There is No question the Winchester # 748 is the best powder I have found for all my.223 Savages.

[jhelmuth]

3 10,000ths (0.0003) may not sound like much - but that is a significant amount of wear (decent target barrels have a tollerance of 0.0003").

If it were me, I'd just keep shooting it and see if the accuracy improves (you have nothing to lose). You can always fall back on the fire lapping if you don't get the results, but you can't replace metal once it's gone. If the barrel is that bad, maybe a new target barrel is in order...


Just my opinion.

[heavybarrel]

Thanks : Jhelmuth............I am going to work on the stock (pressure-points) "bedding" etc first. I will test some more loads after that and decide if and when I want to fire lap. I feel the barrel will come in. Savage barrels are generally pretty good, mine seems just a bit crude, but nothing really bad.