Axis bolt lift kit almost complete.

[thomae]

I am in the process of constructing a bolt lift kit for my Axis .223.

First of all here's how I did a multi-bearing lift kit for my 10 FCM. Please look at posting 3 under the following thread:
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,44198.0.html

Now the Axis/Edge bolt lift kit is functionally identically, but also slightly different due to the difference in bolt construction. The Axis bolt is slightly different than the 10/110 bolt: The BAS is not flat on the end like the Savage 10/110 BAS, but is recessed, so that the firing pin spring actually goes up inside the BAS and contacts it internally (on a recessed flat surface).

The outer diameter of the bearing should be less than about 10mm or .396". The inside hole for the firing pin has to still be approximately .25", so the closest bearing from Avid would be the 5 x 10 x 4 bearing. I don't have one of these, so I don't know if the outside diameter needs to be reduced or not. The inside diameter needs to be increased to fit the firing pin.

{Edit: I DO need to get the smaller bearing because the bearing cage is too wide for the diameter needed and I really don't want to mess with that piece. I'll let you know what happens when I get the smaller bearing.}

Perhaps there is another source for metal bearings that would fit without modification, but I have not found it. If you know of any other/better source, please let me and everyone else know.

I am not complete with this lift kit as I purchased the 5x12x4 bearings and don't know if I can get them small enough and not damage the races. I may need to purchase the smaller size.

Oh, by the way, my very first mod was to smooth the end of the Firing pin spring so it didn't "dig" into the BAS. This made bolt disassembly much easier.

Comments? Suggestions?

[thomae]

Update: I received the newer, smaller bearings. Outer diameter is great. Inner diameter of bearing races is too small and there is no room to machine inner diameter.

So...I need to rethink things.

Question: What would the unintended consequences of machining the rear .62" of the firing pin from its original 6mm diameter to just shy of 5mm diameter so it will fit inside the bearing? It would reduce the mass just a bit, but I can't think of any reason not to do it. If I mess things up, I suppose I can always purchase a new firing pin from Savage for not much money.

I'm not the smartest one on this forum, so I am asking for the benefit of your collective knowledge and experience. Any downside to trying this?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[sharpshooter]

Forget the ball bearings...your'e making this too complicated. Just use a flat washer between the spring and BAS. The end of the spring is not flat enough to distibute the load evenly on the surface of the BAS. A properly fitted washer will let the spring transfer the load evenly to the surface of the counterbore of the BAS as it rotates with the spring.Be sure to grease the washer. The thickness of the washer is not enough to even worry about trimming the spring.
You'll find that no matter how friction you reduce here, the lift won't be affected that much. It not a matter of friction, it's a matter of geometry, just like any other Savage that suffers from a hard bolt lift. Some people think that this is a defect, it is not. It is an engineering flaw.

[Gmac5]

I agree with sharpshooter.to reduce effort needed in lifting the bolt ,examine and try eliminating excess gap between receiver( back end ) and bolt mounting boss. This will adjust primary timing extraction.
Hope this helps.GARY

[sharpshooter]

?????????????????? That made no sense.

[Gmac5]

Sorry, i communicate better with my mouth,even the i can have trouble.
Having hard bolt lift can be 2 diff things ( omitting the case, or basic design) one problem of hard lift has to do with the distance between the back of the receiver and the bolt ( which is where the savage has primary extraction cam milled in). The distance between rec and bolt ,or in the 110 the rear baffle and bolt,will determine when the case starts to be extracted,which if later will usually make bolt lift harder. If i could draw a diagram it would be so much easier. Take a look at axis primary extractor cam and distance between receiver and bolt and see how it affects timing which affects effort.
Gary

[Gmac5]

The other possible problem associated with hard lift has been the cocking button(sear) making contact with insie of bolt body or the cam angle rough or dirty. This area shoud have a good smooth finish ,no burrs ,and plenty of good grease . Check for contact marks under the button ( sear ) they will looh like scratches parallel tothe cam angle. Early 110 bolts were not recessed in this area.

[sharpshooter]

Primary extraction has little to do with a hard bolt lift. If the bolt lifts hard, it will be just as hard without the rear baffle on the bolt assembly. Just as in the Axis hard bolt lift, it will lift just as hard with no primary extraction. As I said before, it is all in the geometry, and the Axis has worse timing problems than the 110's.

[Gmac5]

Sorry for stepping on some toes .i have never done this before .im currently recuperating and thought i would try . Bob geenleafs article in ps magazine and over 20 yrs of only mauser and savage rifles are all i have to offer .i will not be helping unless asked . I have been to busy to ever read or post on the web .those that only post obviously arenot busy enough in the shop.what sharpshooter said about timing is correct but then that is what i was trying to explain,timing IS affected by the gap between receiver and bolt body. Firing pin compression is also reason for hard bolt lift ,try this remove firing pin and assembly then try bolt lift ,i know thars extreme but if it proves a point then so be it. No brag just fact. If your to young to remember that line then you would not understand why im upset . Im NOT trying to sell any thing here.

[762X51]

You'll find that no matter how friction you reduce here, the lift won't be affected that much. It not a matter of friction, it's a matter of geometry, just like any other Savage that suffers from a hard bolt lift. Some people think that this is a defect, it is not. It is an engineering flaw.


You've piqued my curiosity now. Would you consider the engineering flaw in the Savage design as a fatal flaw or is it correctable? Are there other bolt action rifles out there that, due to a different or superior design, are more likely to function properly from the get go or are all mass produced bolt action rifles prone to poor timing? I saw a guy shooting a suppressed FN SPR at the range the other day and he was working the bolt with one finger and it appeared effortless. Is the pre 64 Winchester style action FN uses superior in design or is it just a highly tuned action befitting it's high price. Can you or would you fill in the blank in the following statement; "The ________ is the best designed mass produced bolt action rifle available today." Thanks in advance for any insight you may provide.

[Gmac5]

Bolt lift on the savage can be made easy and smooth,i have been doing it for many years ,like i said before ,firing pin compression, sear drag,polished and squared bolt face and polished ad trued lugs ,last but not least adjust primary extraction timing ie distance between receiver and bolt body. As i said b4 im old school and communicate better speaking.when you compare diff actions you also need to take into consideration how fast your firing pin falls ,the slower lock time generally will compress ( lift ) easier.
Gary