338 Edge brass forming...Could I get an opinion

[dcompton]

Hello everyone.
I've just got the last parts together for my 338 Edge build and I was going to start working on building up some loads. I am using 375 Ultra brass as I found a pretty good deal on some new. I am using a 338 RUM sizer to neck down the brass. I set about a .090 gap between the shell holder and the die. I was then comparing a parent case to the wildcat case with a Hornady headspace gauge and here is what I have.

The parent case reads 2.4695 and the newly formed 338 Edge case reads 2.4645, a difference of 5 thou. .005 seems like too much as the standard "bump the shoulder a couple thou" seems to indicate .002. This is my first wildcat and although in terms of wildcatting a fairly simple endeavor, I still would like someone to verify that I'm close to where I need to be on forming the brass.

I'll post pics of the build as soon as I finishing putting her all together.

thanks in advance!

DC

[Tracer]

I can't help you on your brass forming but I have a .338 caliber that many call the .338-EDGE! I simply went the route of taking a .300 Remington Ultra magnum caliber and necked it up to the .338 caliber, I holds about 4.5 grains more powder than the .338 Ultra magnum. I had to put a muzzle brake on this rifle, as firing from the bench was something of a torture session for me. Now the rifle has been tammed down and shoots very well out to 800 yards, giving us an average groups size for 5 shots at under 6.5 inches in still winds. It is a 28 inch stainless barrel flutted on a model 70 action. The rifle weighs in a 14 pounds, with a Bushnell tactical scope on top.

[dcloco]

DC, I would try to bump only the minimal amount needed. Two thousandths would be perfect.

At five thousandths, you are in the area to leave the bullets contacting the lands to get the cases to fireform correctly. At that bump, you might end up with some misfires.

[dcompton]

dcloco,
When I backed the die off the shell holder, I was able to keep the shoulder dimension the same from the parent case. However, now I have kind of a "doughnut" at the base of the neck where it meets the shoulder. Am I to understand that this is normal when necking down? I suppose turning the outside of the neck is the solution? Sorry for the seeming stupidity, it's my first wildcat.

[dcloco]

Yes.

Turn the outside of the necks first. This will help to reduce, but may not eliminate the dreaded doughnut.

It would be HIGHLY recommended that you also inside neck ream as well. Have a numbered drill bit set?

I use the Forster brand case trimmers because all of the accessories are a LOT cheaper and do the same work. I do like the hand held neck turners from Sinclair though.

[geargrinder]

Before you delve into donuts and neck reaming. Let's make sure we pinpoint what problem you actually have.

Is your brass fired or virgin?

I wouldn't be taking any comparison measurements against virgin brass. It's likely small to begin with.

I suspect your dies are not set correctly.

What did you use to set the headspace on you barrel?

[dcompton]

Geargrinder,

It is virgin .375RUM brass.
Headspace was set with .300RUM GO/NO-GO gauges.

I was just taking a comparison to make sure I wasn't pushing the shoulders back since I was using .338RUM dies. When I had the dies backed off far enough to not change the shoulder measurement from the parent case, that's when i noticed the little bulge at the base of the necks.

I've reloaded for years in many calibers, but that's all "set die, stroke handle, make rounds" work. I'm kinda learning as I go with this wildcat stuff....I may just pony up the $160 for a set of 338-300 Reddings. Then I'd be back to "set die, stroke handle, make rounds." 8)

DC

[geargrinder]

Ok, that's what I was looking for.

Use your Hornady headspace gauge on your 300RUM go-gauge. That measurement is what you want your brass to be.

I think the "donut" you are seeing is just the neck not being fully sized. That's because you backed the die far enough back to not bump the shoulder, but far enough back to not size all of the neck.

Sounds like you need to set your die somewhere in between where you were bumping the shoulder and not getting the full neck. Either way, I wouldn't really worry about it until you are working with fired brass. Virgin brass is sized small and shouldn't be used for any measurements or visual indications.

You don't need the expensive set of dies. I only have about $55 in my 338 Edge dies. I use a gutted 375RUM FL die for all my body sizing and a Lee 338RUM set for expanding, shoulder bump, and bullet seating.

[dcompton]

On your advice from previous posts, that's the same set-up I have as well.
I'll take a measurement off the GO gauge and run them from there. Don't know why the heck I didn't think of that. "Occam's Razor" I guess. I tell ya, I was having a real WTF moment out in the shop for a while. Thanks for all your help. It's been a year getting all the parts together for this thing a couple pieces at a time. Hopefully soon it will actually shoot. All I have left to get is a muzzle brake and then duracoat it.

DC

[geargrinder]

Just shoot it. Muzzle brakes are for sissies. ;D

Just kidding.

I really like my Ross Schuler brake. They are work great and are very reasonably prices. I think he also does installs if you send him your barrel.

[dcompton]

Hey thanks! I'm "googling" for them as I write this.

DC

[dcloco]

He is going to end up with a donut. Measure a piece of virgin 375 brass and a piece of 338 brass. Your difference will be 0.034 to 0.038". That brass has to go somewhere...and in the neck/shoulder junction is where you are pushing it.

I would outside neck turn first. Start with 0.006" on virgin 375 brass, then neck size.

Another method that has worked on other cartridges - neck size with a FL die without the sizing button installed. Then install the sizing button and size with ONLY the sizing button. Measure and inspect your brass.

[geargrinder]

Never said that there wouldn't be donuts. I just said that what he was looking at wasn't a donut.

The Law of Parsimony is the ultimate K.I.S.S. theory.


Ross doesn't have a website. Here's his email. rem40xb1@msn.com

Here's a couple links of his.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2226032&page=1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Muzzle-brakes-sale-/130563812567?_trksid=p5197.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.OPJS%26itu%3DI%252BUA%26otn%3 D12%26pmod%3D130538267825%252B150624258537%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2227540585093326521

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3768850.msg35972412.html#msg35972412

[dcloco]

You are so right Geargrinder.

40 thou on that side of brass is a ton.