How to build ultimate long range repeater?

[mattri]

Looking to build a rifle for long range (600-1k) accuracy off of a repeating action. Have no preference between internal mag and DBM.

Going to build off of a long action- I've read that the 110s don't need to be trued, and I'm not concerned with bolt lift so won't have it timed. Is there anything else to pay attention to on the 110 series purely from an accuracy point of view?

Will probably use a Criterion from NSS, have had excellent success with the Criterion I have now.

For simplicity sake I'm looking at stocks with bedding blocks, is there a syn stock that has provision for a mag that has a better track record than others- open to suggestions.

As evident open to suggestion re component options. I've done a few searches and posted related questions, just looking to get a good picture of which parts work well with others before buying.

Any and all comments welcome.

[nsaqam]

A few points I'll add.

Don't go too heavy on the barrel contour. My PacNor #2 (about like other barrel makers #3 contours) is as heavy as I want to go. You still need to carry it.
I like longer barrels so my 280AI #2 is 26" long and I'm getting 3050 with Magpro and the 162 Amax. This is squarely in 7RM territory yet I'm seeing zero pressure signs and Quickload shows pressures below SAAMI MAP.

As far as stocks go, an aluminum bedding block stock is no easier to use than a well designed and manufactured stock without a BB. The bedding block will have to be machined at the top of the tolerance to ensure that all actions (with their own tolerance range) will fit. This means that you'll likely have a somewhat sloppy BB to action fit. Perfect for skim bedding. The same goes for a good stock without a BB like a McMillan. I'm not convinced that an aluminum BB is the best thing to set a steel action in either. Aluminum has 2X the thermal expansion of steel.

A 110 benefits just as much as a Rem 700 from being trued. Some folks claim the floating bolthead obviates the need for truing but if you think about it that is wishful thinking. If your bolthead has to tip make full locking lug contact with both lugs then that throws the boltface itself out of perfect perpendicularity with the bore. All that said, I think that truing an action does more for the shooters psyche (and the gunsmiths pocketbook) than it does for actual shooting in the field.

Just my $.02

[mattri]

Excellent reply, thanks.

Barrel will be at least 26", good points re the block as well.

As far as trueing the action, you mentioned that it may not make that much of an accuracy in the field.

How much of an actual difference is going to be seen between a trued vs stock action?

Is there anything that absolutely should be done to the action?

[nsaqam]

I think you'd be hard pressed to see the difference in accuracy on anything short of a full benchrest setup.
Unless your action was horribly out of square to begin with.

The main thing I'd be concerned with would be the barrel and the chambering and throating of same.

I'd try to decide which bullet would be my primary bullet and I would throat the chamber to put that bullet right on the lands when the cartridge is loaded to the max length allowable to feed and function within your magazine constraints.

A really good trigger will help. Many people go aftermarket and there are some good choices out there but my favorite trigger is a tuned two screw which I feel rivals any hunting trigger I've tried.

Of course you'll want to get a good aftermarket recoil lug too.

The most critical thing with any long range type rig is to get a lot of trigger time at long range. Nothing beats bullets down range.

[82boy]

Going to build off of a long action- I've read that the 110s don't need to be trued, and I'm not concerned with bolt lift so won't have it timed.

I don't know where you read that, but it is not true. A long action 110 will be like any Savage action (short action 10 or Target action.) and most like will be warped, due to the heat treatment process. The singel shot action are usually worse off.

[dcloco]

Have chucked multiple Savage actions in the lathe. Took one light cut on one action...the rest were fine.

No, I did NOT measure down to the tenth of thousandths, but did measure with a dial indicator.

Of note, it IS possible to get 90 to 95% contact of the bolt face lugs on a Savage action. Yes, some should be cut first, then lapped.

I built a tool to assist in lapping Savage bolt heads. Consists of a piece of round stock, threaded for Savage small shank actions, with a heavy spring in the center, and a 5/16 ball bearing pushing on the firing pin hole of the bolt head.

I do have a piece of 1500 grit sandpaper on a thick glass plate that I sprinkle a dab of water on (for lubrication), to lightly rub the face of the action on to check for any odd irregularities in the cut. Trick is to hold the action as perpendicular with the plate as possible. You are NOT removing metal, just a minor scuff with 1500 will show if there is a finish imperfection (high spots, low spots) on the face of the action.

Also do the same with the barrel nuts. If the barrel nut face is not square with the face, it WILL pull the barrel in odd directions.

[mattri]

Great replies.

Is this work that any competent gunsmith can perform?

[tyler.woodard04]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/01edgered/Savage%207mm%20WSM%20Long%20Range%20Hunter%20Build/th_IMG_1343.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/01edgered/Savage%207mm%20WSM%20Long%20Range%20Hunter%20Build/?action=view&current=IMG_1343.jpg)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/01edgered/Savage%207mm%20WSM%20Long%20Range%20Hunter%20Build/th_IMG_1347.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/01edgered/Savage%207mm%20WSM%20Long%20Range%20Hunter%20Build/?action=view&current=IMG_1347.jpg)

Not the best pictures sorry
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/01edgered/Savage%207mm%20WSM%20Long%20Range%20Hunter%20Build/th_IMG_1345.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/01edgered/Savage%207mm%20WSM%20Long%20Range%20Hunter%20Build/?action=view&current=IMG_1345.jpg)


this is one I built spring 2010. it started as a short action repeater reviver only with WSM bolt face and large shank threads. Added a Krieger barrel 9 twist 26.5" long #5.5. its a heavy bull flutted. have my own 7WSM reamer from PTG.
stock is B+C medalist. Lug is SSS. trigger is factory accu with trimmed spring. its a two in the mag one in the tube gun.

I really like how it came out and will be going out west with me next time. shoots berger 168 VLD at a hair over 3000. 3/4" groups at 300 have been shot with it.

[mattri]

Great looking rifle- and good shooting!

[dcloco]

You can build it.

All the actions I checked did not even wiggle the needle with the feeler on it. One did, but there was a burr. :)

308 would be a great start. 190 SMK's do wonderful things at long range. Cheap brass is plentiful too.

[mattri]

The .308 is a great round for sure. I've owned a few and like the availability of components and data. This build is going to be .280 for the extra capacity/velocity and the great selection of 7mm bullets. I've built a couple of Savages before, using a Stevens 200 with the internal box and a PTA.
Both shoot very, very well.
Who has had work done to their stock Savage action? How did it turn out?

[nsaqam]

Strongly consider the 280AI over the regular 280 Rem.

Not only do you get slightly increased case capacity but, and more importantly, you also get a 5Kpsi boost in SAAMI MAP.
The 280 Rem is a 60Kpsi cartridge and all published load data will reflect that lower MAP limit. The 280AI on the other hand has a 65Kpsi MAP. Combine the extra capacity with the higher MAP and you've got a very real increase in performance over the 280 Rem.

Factory, properly headstamped brass is readily available from Nosler and if you combine the superb Lee Collet Die for the 280 Rem with the superb Hornady CGND seater for the 280 Rem you'll be making golden 280AI ammo for cheap.

Far less trimming required too which contributes to very long case life.

The 280AI is a winner in every single aspect.

[mattri]

Thanks for the suggestion. I looked at the 280 AI but from all the data I could find the improvement in velocity was only in the 50-75fps range. What are you seeing in yours?

[nsaqam]

I'm getting a measured 3050 fps with the 162gr Amax out of my 26" tube using 64gr of Magpro sparked by a WLR primer in Nosler 280AI brass.
I also get 3000 with the 168 Berger VLD using 60gr RL22.

All this with zero pressure sign and very long brass life. Quickload also shows pressures in the 60-64Kpsi range which is below the 65Kpsi MAP for the cartridge.

Nosler #6 shows a max of 2929 with 160's for the 280 Rem and 3045 with 160's for the 280AI. That's a 116fps advantage for the AI. Nosler 6 also shows a 100+ fps advantage for all the other bullet weights with the exception of the 175's.

All this and less tedious trimming and longer case life make the 280AI the clear winner.

Heck, I'm thinking of punching my 7mm Rem Mag to 7mm/300 Win Mag or 7mm Mashburn because the smaller 280AI is equaling the velocities I'm seeing with the 7mmRM.

[mattri]

Wow, that's pretty impressive! Maybe I missed it (on my phone) but what are the specs on your rifle?

[nsaqam]

Barnes #4 has anemic loads listed for the 280 Rem.

Barnes shows a max load pushing the 160 TSX to a paltry 2744fps!!!
I'm getting 306fps more pushing a bullet 2 grains heavier and 256fps more pushing 8 grains more!!!

Barnes can't break 3000 with a 140 grain bullet!!

The 280 Rem is seriously handicapped by the preposterous 60Kpsi MAP imposed on it due to it being introduced in the semi-auto Rem 740.

Of course you could load the 280 Rem to 65Kpsi but you're on your own since no company publishes loads for it which exceed the 60Kpsi MAP.
The 280AI was unshackled when it was standardized by SAAMI at 65Kpsi.

[nsaqam]

Wow, that's pretty impressive! Maybe I missed it (on my phone) but what are the specs on your rifle?


My rifle is an older LH flat back pre AccuTrigger 111 originally chambered for the 270 with a 22" barrel.

It now wears a nutless 26" #2 PacNor 3 groove barrel and a .250" recoil lug. It has the now discontinued Tubbs SpeedLock all titanium firing pin and spring. It is sitting in a cheap factory tupperware stock but I'll have my McMillan Savage Classic McWoody in about a month.
It wears a 20MOA EGW rail and Weaver Tactical (hate that word) rings holding a 4.5-14x40 Burris FFII fitted with the TAC2 elevation turret.
The old two screw trigger has been massaged and is among the finest hunting triggers I've ever used. FAR superior to any AccuTrigger I've ever felt.
I'm concentrating on the 160gr class bullets and particularly to those with very high BC's but I do have a box of the 140 VLD's I'll test out.

Everything so far has been sub MOA and I'm just getting started with the development. I'm expecting great things.

[mattri]

nsaqam, it's been a little while, any new reports on the 280AI?

[fcsurvivor]

If I read your post right you are looking to go out to 1000yds. A .260 with a 1:8 twist will more than handle 1000 with the 139-142gr bullets. It is still supersonic at 1000 and is good to 1200. The advantage to the .260 is it works great through a short action, so you have a much better selection of stocks for the short action vs the long action. The selection of 6.5 bullets is outstanding as well.

[mattri]

That was the original intent yes, but the plan has changed a bit.

Now looking at using the rifle for hunting deer out to 600 yards, most in the 400-600 yard range. The reason for the change is simple, we moved and our hunting terrain is different now.

Thinking about a 7mm-08 built off of a long action with a Criterion from Jim. They have a .191 freebore so withthe long action you could seet 140/160gr bullets long and still cycle through the internal mag.

Thoughts?