Does this sound like a stupid idea?

[mugsie]

OK - I know I'm setting myself up for this one but when I focus on something my mind seems to think it to death! As you know from previous posts, I'm starting a bedding job - hopefully - tonight. Anyway, I got to thinking - since we want our rifles free floated and no stress induced in the action at all, maybe there's a better way.

Suppose instead of bedding compound that the action is cradled in, suppose it's on a dense foam. The action screws are lightly torques down to hold the action "firmly" against the foam padding, and are cradled in their own little foam tubes, the rear of the recoil lug is tight against the stock (maybe this is where bedding is used to ensure uniform contact between the rear of the lug and the stock) but the action sits on the foam. The barrel nut free floats, as does the DBM if there is one - maybe line the inletting with the foam too.

The way I envision it, there is absolutely zero stress placed on the receiver now. The recoil lug adsorbs the recoil, the "settles" back into position in the foam cradle. The action screws only serve to hold the action in place and keep it from jumping and torquing.

Does the concept work? I was thinking of possibly developing a foam gasket to fit below the action and possibly try it out. What say yee?

[r29l20]

I've thought of something on that line as well, repeatability would be impossible, and the action would beat the stock and screws.

[LabRat2k3]

I don't think it would give as good results as conventional bedding. Didn't Winchester try something like that with their model 70 at one time, hot glue bedding is what people ended up calling it. If I remember correctly it was a huge failure that most people ended up cleaning out and bedding with some sort of bedding compound. If you have the stuff on hand to do it though, and the spare time, give it a try. You might just invent the next big thing.

[CJ in WY]

Doesnt the barrel put some stress on the action? The recoil lug will do its job but will the foam keep the barrel freefloated and returned to the same spot....Specially after maltiple rounds. Wouldnt temperature have a bigger effect on the foam??
Have had some luck with a couple of barreled actions bedding them all the way to the forearm. Helps accuracy on some units but the POI changes with just about every outing.

[Eric in NC]

Think it would bounce and wiggle around. Solid contact (custom made with bedding) and repeatable torque are a better plan.

[irondog54]

Think of your barrel and action at the moment of firing as a tuning fork, or a bell. Any kind of soft material will cause a "clunk" instead of a "ping". Not the best idea...

[leather5to1]

First I didn't forget to get you pics yet. Second the action needs to be firmly attached so that it is in the same position for every shot. The backward recoil is not the only movement the stock is trying to stop so you need more than just the lug touching. The barrel whips, mostly up and down, and the screws need to be tight to keep them from being strained.

[barthmonster]

thinking of new ways to do things that may be better is awesome. I don't like your idea though just being honest.

[82boy]

Well, I don't know how good of an idea that is. My thought is if it ain't broke why fix it, or why reinvent the wheel. The fact is epoxy bedding works great, if there was a better way to bed an action I would think that some shooter would have done it by now and you would see people flocking to the idea. The only true way to tell if something is going to work is to give it a try and see what happens.

To tell the truth, in a way, I don't think that your idea is that far fetched. If you look at the old long range guns BR, the heavy long range guns BR of new, and a BR rail gun, none of them have any support under the action. The action floats out in space. The actions are supported a by barrel blocks clamped around the barrel that are attached to the stock or base of the gun, usually the barrel blocks are bedded to the stock. So with that said, the action doesn't have to be touching anything.The most important thing is to have a good contact between the barreled action and the stock, how ever that may be accomplished.

To add to your idea look at the top made benchrest stocks Tom Meridith, Kelby, McMillan, ETC they are made to be as light as they can be and they don't have any metal of wood supports, the shell of the stock is fiberglass, and they are usually filled with, You guessed it Foam. Now they usually have a denser foam under the action area, and most people either glue the actions with epoxy or pillar bed them. Depending on the caliber and intended use most don't use recoil lugs, and get there support from the tang area of the stock.

Now lets look a bit closer to your idea. I can see a flaw in it right off the start. There is not any good contact with the barreled action and the stock. You said something about making sure that the recoil lug was against the stock, but I don't see how this can be accomplished with your plan. There is a large gap between the inside of the pillars that the action screws would go through and the screws themselves. Unless you can cut the amount of space down between the screws and the pillars the action is going to move independently from the stock in recoil. You need more support between the action, than just some loose fitting screws. You would have to make the fit between the recoil lug tight on all sides, and I would say that it would have to be so tight that you could not take the gun apart, to make your idea work. If anything I would epoxy the recoil lug permanently into the stock, to do what your contemplating. I don't think that your idea would not work, with some time and effort I think it wold, but would it be cost effective, and/or work better than a standard bedding job? I would have to say that the answer is that it is not worth the effort.

[mugsie]

All good input people - thanks and keep 'em coming.

I'm sure if the Wright brothers had of listened to people they too would have stopped. "Listen Wilbur, if people were meant to fly, someone would have already invented the airplane and we'd be zipping all over the world by now". I'm sure they heard that comment.

Seriously, look at artillery pieces - everything free floats. In fact then entire gun jumps in recoil, then through pistons, settles back in the same position ready for the next shot. I think I'm going to continue noodling this around for a while. Maybe pneumatic pistons? Denser foam? As this progresses over the next year or so I'll keep you guys posted. Who knows, before long someone will be saying "it's such a simple idea, why didn't I think of that!" or maybe even "Hey! I though of that years ago, I just didn't have the money or time to try it".

Hmmmm........

[bluealtered]

Well i take a different approach to bedding, i have done this to five rifles so far and it has made for better groups so far. Three of those rifles are that no good "tupperware" stock. I won't say it's the proper way to bed, but it works for me.

When i first started bedding or using after market stocks i would always make a templet just to check and see how well the action really fit that stock, most of them fit pretty darn good where they were bolted together. It was on the sides of the stock that i found most often that need a few thou's work.

So what i do on these is simple, i take masking tape and build a dam on each inside of the top of the stock where the action itself sits, (some stocks need this on both sides, some only on one side) I then fill that dam, (which is only about a 1/8" wide) with devcon 2000 and after a few days to cure i use a a piece of paint steering stick with sandpaper on it and start smoothing it out to where the action fits very snugly into the stock. When your done there sould be no room for motion of any kind, i want everthing tranfered to that lug.

This removes any side to side flexing , you now have a action that is transfering about 95+% of it's recoil as it should. I have done this to five so far and it works, i find it a lot easier to do than the regular bedding and a heck of a lot less mess. blue

[bsekf]

Look at this link, Jerry Teo's solution to bedding by using a bedding block. IMHO this is the only way to avoid traditional bedding. If you could get away with a smaller alum. block, it might work on a varmint rifle. Sure is food for thought and would scare the heck out of the traditionalist's. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek075.html

Bill