TO NUT or NOT TO NUT

[sandrifle]

Hi, I'm new to this site, so any errors are first time mistakes. I guessing most likely there is already a thread on both my ?s if someone can just refer me to them that would be great.

TO NUT or NOT TO NUT, That is the ? or one of them anyway. I'm sure I'll have a few more even after these but this will get me started. I am becoming a convert/believer in the doit yourself barrel swapping option that the Savage has to offer and will be ordering a new action in the next day or so if I can get a couple of ?s answered first.

Again the whole turn on for the Savage is the NUT, why with all the success I here about out there with Savage rifles using NUTTY barrels would someone eliminate it and go back to NO NUT??? Has anyone proved a gain in accuracy by not having it. I'm not talking about other brands of actions in comparison, only a Savage with a NUT then the same rifle setup without a NUT nothing else changed ???

Also I am in need of what should seem relatively simple answers to simple questions but I can't seem to get anyone knowledgeable on the phone at Savage. I have tried 3 times and end up speaking with tech reps that cannot provide the info needed and can't (won't) refer me to anyone who does know (guess it's top secret). Soo... does anyone out there know what the actual outside diameter of the action that is used on the Model 12 Long Range Precision Varminter (REPEATER) is, specifically the 6BR chambering? Is that diameter the same for the whole "Precision action" lineup regardless of model, caliber, port configuration, etc. Also what the whole spacing would be, center to center (again on the 12 LRPV -REPEATER), and if it is similar or different and in what way from their Savage Precision Target Short Action, 3 screw single shot gen 3. 4.400 action screw spacing. Obviously I realize the middle screw does not exist, but I heard or read somewhere that the forward hole is possibly .125" forward of the single shot pattern in relation to the recoil lug??? Any solid numbers out there would greatly be appreciated.
Thanks

[outlawkyote]

Again the whole turn on for the Savage is the NUT, why with all the success I here about out there with Savage rifles using NUTTY barrels would someone eliminate it and go back to NO NUT??? Has anyone proved a gain in accuracy by not having it. I'm not talking about other brands of actions in comparison, only a Savage with a NUT then the same rifle setup without a NUT nothing else changed ???
Thanks


Because we can... Cant think of any other reason except to maintain a larger diameter barrel.

[stevec]

Because we can... Cant think of any other reason except to maintain a larger diameter barrel.
[/quote]

Thats why I did it!

Steve

[sandrifle]

What are the max diameters NUTTED and NUTTLESS? And again has anyone shown discernible differences either way (with the added diameter also). I did find a statement somewhere in my reading that Fred from SSS "has installed them on Remington 700s and seen accuracy improvements". I guess it's not really a quote since I can't find where I read it, but it leaves me wanting to know.

[outlawkyote]

Ive done it both ways, I cant say one way or another if it aided in accuracy.

[savageboy]

Don't c how it would matter either way in theory

[nsaqam]

A properly machined and headspaced shouldered barrel (nutless) gives nothing away accuracywise to a nutted barrel. IMO the Savage nut is less appealing visually than a regular shouldered barrel. The drawback to going nutless is that you need someone to machine the breech end for you unless you are setup to do the machining yourself.

[sharpshooter]

I haven't seen an accuracy advantage, one way over the other. A shouldered barrel will allow for a larger diameter if weight is what your'e after.
The nut set up has several advantages.
1. The same barrel can be installed on many actions.
2. The headspace is adjustable.....match it to your ammo or dies.
3. If you need to change a bolt head because of damage, see #2
4. Resale value is better, it will fit someone elses receiver.

[ellobo]

I always thought the nut gave the rifle a manly, rugged look. Plus, once you have a flanged nutless barrel installed it cant be used on another action. You can remove it and rreplace it with a nutted barrel but replacing it in the same action will cause some headspace problems or not. Why bother. It seems you have a problem with the looiks of the nut. Fear not and dont let your Remchester buddies give you a hard time, just go and outshoot them and then you laugh.

El Lobo

[hank440]

Welcome to the BROTHERHOOD of the Barrel Nut. You don't want to be the nutless brother do you ? :-*

[efm77]

I agree that the biggest reason you would want to do it without a nut would be if you wanted a very heavy barrel. I think a nutless barrel can be made to be as accurate but it takes more work to do it. Whereas with a nutted barrel you know you can get minimum headspace every time.

[savageboy]

I am doing a 6brx over the next 6 months. It is really next years build, so I am taking my sweet time on it. I will be able to test this pretty scientific like as I have 2 barrels now.

I orig. purchased a Kreiger 8.7-8.4" gain twist 6mm bbl that will finish at 28+" that I am going nutless with. I just bought the 6mmbrx Brux barrel from DJ111 that is done w/ a nut. I am going to use the Brux as my fireform barrel, and prob. shoot some matches with it (if I can ever find any Varget!- no actually funny anymore). They I am having Mike Davis of here in NC (built several record setting rifles) do my Kreiger Nutless- that is the only way he does them- his choice not mine. So, I will be able to give a pretty good analysis. Bad news is it will prob. be almost this time next year when all the data is in.
I gotta do ladder tests and find the most accurate load for each one, hopefully with the same bullet/ powder/ primer combo. Brass will be Lapua. So, stay tuned.
This will be my 600yd rifle and sometimes 1000yd. My 260AI (1000yd go to rifle) is getting overhauled as we speak- new barrel and stock.

[sandrifle]

Thanks for all the info guys! Savageboy, do you happen to know what your max barrel diameters will be with and without nut. Will be looking forward to your results when you are up and shooting.

[savageboy]

My Kreiger is 1.250 tapering to 1.0" at a finish length of 28". Not sure of the Brux. Maybe Dallas can pop in here?

[Three44s]

I like NUTS ........ because I'm nuts ............ ;D

And if someone's afraid of NUTS ........

........ most all the other rifle brands out there .............

........ are NUTLESS!

So just like someone who hates America ...... there's a plane leaving every thrity seconds .........

There are racks and racks of rifles .........

.......... without NUTS!


OKAY ..........

.......... please pass me another NUTTED barrel.

Three 44s

[efm77]

There must be some merit to it because a couple other manufacturers have gone to it. Granted it is cheaper to install a barrel with a nut as well but it's also almost a guarentee to have the headspace perfect which seems to contribute greatly to accuracy.

[peterf225]

I don't think there is a max diameter for a nutted barrel. I had sinarms do my 300 whisper barrel with a nut and the barrel is 1.2" no taper 26" long. There is a step where the threads and barrel nut are. Doesn't look bad either.

[rjtfroggy]

Do yourself a favor and get in touch with Jim Briggs at Northland (1 of the sponsors) He will be able to set you up and won't steer you in the wrong direction.

[Smokepole]

I dug up this older post to throw in my 2 cents I guess.

When it comes down to it, it's a fastener. In any nut/bolt fastener system, the end goal is to apply tension (preload) on the bolt to hold the components together. In this system, the bolt is the barrel and the nut is the nut. More accurately, the barrel is a threaded stud. The best situation is to have the fastener stud/bolt in pure tension---a one dimensional, predictable stress that should be constant throughout the fastener body (barrel stub in this case). This most accurately holds the parts together, and in our case it provides an accurate stress distribution around the chamber area. On a Remchester, the barrel is placed in tension and torsion the same way as a bolt torqued down by its head. On the nutted designs, the barrel is in pure tension. It is inarguable fact that the superior fastening method is the latter. This can be evidenced by the fact that premium engine fasteners are always stud/nut designs rather than bolts (rod studs, main cap studs, head studs, etc.). And it's further evidenced by how bolts torqued by the head break off; always right under the head where the torsional and tensile stresses add the most.

It's doubtful there's ever enough torsional stress ever applied to present a yielding or breaking situation on the Remchesters. And I doubt that those stresses are ever enough to induce any chamber deformities. But, it's up to you to decide if you think those torsionally imposed stresses make the steel react a tad different around the periphery of the chamber under the impulse hoop loading and tensile loading of a round firing.

Of course this was not the motivation for Savage using what they have. It was simply ease of manufacture. But, I believe it does offer something to the consumer besides easy headspacing, easy switch barrels, and that cool nutted look... ;D

[dcloco]

For me, it depends on the application.

Built two 1.250" barrels, so it would be ridiculous to profile these barrels for a nut.

The 338 RUM build is without a nut. Used a large shank Target action and profiled the 32" barrel to the same dimension at the receiver. Smooth look without a barrel nut.