Loading rifle cartridges with Blue Dot Powder

[Appleseed]

Before I try something dangerous...have been interested to try reduced loads in both a .223 and .221fb rifles using Blue Dot powder. I have a friend at a reloading shop that has loaded with good results, he isn't new to loading or shooting. Have also been warned about the dangers of overloaded powder charges.
There are several detailed load charts available, but want to be extra safe. I would appreciate advise from reloaders that have experience with reduced loads. I would use other reduced load powders, but have a new 1lb can of Blue Dot unopened.

[jmason]

you might try posting on "silencertalkdotcom" there is a lot of info on subsonic(reduced) loading there. I have only done it once but found enough info there to make myself comfortable with the process. I use trailboss in a 270 win w/ 90 gr bullets.. I had to use short bullets because the longer ones wouldn't stabilize at the slower speeds.

[1Shot]

...12.5grs of BD...& 50gr Nos. is my load in .223..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/GM-FB1.jpg

[Slowpoke Slim]

It is definitely an advanced loading process. You must be very, very careful and meticulous in your loading steps. The single biggest advice I could give you would be to only charge powder into each case, one at a time, and then visually check that it went in, and seat your bullets one at a time.

I DO use blue dot to load in my 223. I'm not trying to duplicate "normal" velocity, but shoot truly reduced loads. They are very accurate, and very mild. My load is 12.0 grs with a Rem 6 1/2 primer, NOT a Rem 7 1/2 primer (the 6 1/2 is a milder primer). My target with my 12.0 gr load would be near identical to 1shot's.

A couple of ways to get in trouble FAST with blue dot is, trying to raise velocity to at or near "standard" loads, and double charging cases. As you increase powder charge, you will be going along with a "normal" progression, then pressure will suddenly come on very, very fast. You will get to a point where a 10th of a grain will make a large increase in pressure (in a 223 size case). Also, if you inadvertently double charge a case, you will most likely blow up your gun, which can injure or kill you, or others around you. I also only use blue dot in my 223, not in any larger cartridges.

I guess I am trying to scare you just a little bit. ON PURPOSE. This CAN be done, but you really are playing with lightning in a bottle here, and if you're not absolutely exact and disciplined in your bench technique, this can kill you. You must load in an environment that is completely free from distractions, no phones, t.v., friends or family coming in and out, etc.

There are also other candidate powders that will accomplish the same thing, with a bit more user friendliness.

I do use blue dot 223 loads, and have for a couple of years now. But I had to warn you about the risks.

--EDIT--

I did have a target saved. This is my 12.0 gr blue dot load, Rem 6 1/2 primer, Hornady 50 gr vmax. This is 5 shots @ 100 yards:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/slowpokeslim/P1020295.jpg

[bootsmcguire]

You know, for reduced loads such as these I wonder how IMR's Trailboss would do in a 223. It seems to have potential in 30-30 and 308. I have not looked into it for 223 sized stuff.

[Appleseed]

Supposed to work good. Start load 70% below bottom of seated bullet and work up; according to their web site.

[1Shot]

..I wonder how IMR's Trailboss would do in a 223.


...Never could get it to group at 100...

[Appleseed]

This sounds crazy, but recoil puts me under. Had a tractor accident/brain injury in 07 that will not allow recoil. That's why the reduced load question. Shot this past week 30 round load development 221fb Sinarms cz, and it punished me, suffering today.

So it is either find a target rifle load with a little less bump or fall back to the 22 rimfires. Have a vlp in .223 to try out too. For a little bit I would screw on a 20 cal of some kind, vartag or maybe 20-222 or maybe another fb? The rifle weight and a cheek pad might help.

[1Shot]

...Never thought much about the B-D recoil...It's more like just a pop..Try 5rds in the VLP .223 with 12grs & a 40gr pill..It should just set there..Then you'll know.. Going to a 20 cal. is not going to drop the recoil much if any...

[Quickshot]

I used Blue Dot in heavy protection shoot back-up loads in 12Ga. shotgun. Found it to be extremely dirty. What kind of velocity do you get and will it kill a groundhog at 100yds? Does it burn more completely in the rifle or still as messy? Quick

[jmason]

do you use a muzzle brake?

[Slowpoke Slim]

appleseed,

Now I understand what your goal is, maybe I can help a bit more. First, I'm not sure what the layout of your rifle is, but if you can add some weight to it, the more the better, it would only help your situation. You can either add weight the expensive way, heavy stocks, heavy long bull barrels, or the cheap way... Depending on your stock, you can open up the bottom of the barrel channel, and drill out a hole or two in the butt stock, and fill these areas with lead. You can easily add several pounds of weight to a rifle this way.

My 223 is a Stevens 200. It is box stock, and weighs probably right at 6.5-7 pounds all in with scope. That being said, with the weight of my rifle, and my stated blue dot loads, the recoil is near identical to a typical 22 magnum rimfire rifle. I'm just trying to give you a point of reference to compare recoil with. If my rifle was several pounds heavier, the recoil would be even less noticeable, and within your target goal of 22 rimfire range.

Also, not sure if your goal is just bench shooting, but maybe consider all of the above, and look into a "lead sled" type recoil absorbing rifle rest?

[Slowpoke Slim]

Quickshot,

I've not shot a groundhog with it, but I have shot squirrels with it. It definitely smacks them down. I was aiming for head shots, but pulled a couple shots (before I stoned my Stevens trigger it was pretty heavy). The two that I pulled the shots on hit the squirrels center of chest, and just about cut them in half. This was between 30 and 50 yards I would say.

I'm sure a groundhog would take a dirt nap at 100 yards when hit with one.

[Appleseed]

Thanks folks, will also try a padded cheek pad, don't know what they are called, but it raises the cheek up in line with the sights like an adjustable stock. And will try that load in .223 vlp. The well under the action could be lead filled cause it is a single shot action. Mostly I sit at the bench and shoot 200-350yrds but have a 600yd that can be opened up. I tried a vias brake on my last .223 barrel, it blasted back, didn't like it. Could try another design brake on this vlp or the .221fb. Gonna have to reduce the recoil.

[sha-ul]

Thanks folks, will also try a padded cheek pad, don't know what they are called, but it raises the cheek up in line with the sights like an adjustable stock. And will try that load in .223 vlp. The well under the action could be lead filled cause it is a single shot action. Mostly I sit at the bench and shoot 200-350yrds but have a 600yd that can be opened up. I tried a vias brake on my last .223 barrel, it blasted back, didn't like it. Could try another design brake on this vlp or the .221fb. Gonna have to reduce the recoil.

Appleseed, can you legally own a suppressor in your state? they are supposed to reduce felt recoil by >50%
is this something that could help you?

[noelfr]

Another powder to consider in 223 is Clays. There is a load listed on the Hodgdon site. I used it and it was fairly accurate at 100 yds. Unfortunately I don't have a tgt to share but it was fairly decent. Very quiet, negligible recoil and this was in a field weight gun. Clays BTW is extremely clean.

[heavybarrel]

Before my dad passed away, I was loading Blue dot for his 38-55 Marlin. He wanted a reduced load (easier on the shoulder) so I worked this one up with Blue dot. To my surprise.....it shot tighter groups that any hunting load I ever assembled for it. The load was a 265grn hard cast GC bullet over 12.2 grains of blue dot. Pop had a cheap BSA scope mounted on it and for an 85 year ole man he did very well. .....This was one of his groups shot back in 2002. (He always said "it's not the load...it's the shooter") Well, you can't argue with that kind of wisdom..../Always work up loads with GREAT caution /............Don in SC

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af36/tailingloop_pics/101_5520.jpg